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nickb123
08-02-2008, 05:17 PM
Okay, this is the main thread to post your opinions and general comments about the book "Carrie", as part of the Lostpedia Book Club.

For all the info about how this month will play out, see the blog post (http://blog.lostpedia.com/2008/08/book-club-begins.html).

Just to reiterate, this is for general book discussion, for all aspects relating to Lost etc - if you've got a specific point you'd like to expand on with further discussion, by all means create your own thread. If you do this, try to make the title non-spoilery just in case others haven't finished the book yet. This would be much appreciated.

Happy reading everyone, and I hope the discussions prove fruitful!

P.S. Be sure to check the blog post for info on Lord of the Flies, which will be next month's read.

Sam McPherson
08-02-2008, 05:35 PM
Every time I read Chris Hargensen's character, I picture sweet, innocent, Claire.

So far, the book isn't that bad. It's not bad enough to not even read it in the "damn bathroom." It's actually quite good.

Lucy815
08-02-2008, 05:46 PM
Is telekinesis the power that Walt has? It seems like he moved all those birds to him with his mind. But Walt's powers seem to actually go beyong that too, don't they?

Sam McPherson
08-02-2008, 06:12 PM
It does seem that his power is similar to that of Carrie's.

stlgirl
08-02-2008, 06:19 PM
*starts*

blackrock29
08-02-2008, 06:26 PM
I couldn't find that much similarities between Lost and Carrie except for the psychic abilities that Walt.
Could someone please help me find the similarites?
Great book though I say we do the Stand next.

stoke3
08-02-2008, 07:09 PM
I think the common theme between 'Carrie' and LOST is Jacob. When Ben and Locke went to visit Jacob, he became angry, and objects started to dart around the room. Just a thought.... :-)

chelsea07
08-02-2008, 10:40 PM
I think similarities can be drawn between Juliet's character and Carrie's character...if you think hard enough. :) Carrie is kind of a misfit at her school, as is Juliet among the others. Also, Carrie seems innocent, yet she holds a really dangerous power. Juliet's kind of like that. She's all sweet and it seems that she's always the victim. But she's killed people, and she has the ability to manipulate people as well.

HenryIan
08-03-2008, 01:12 AM
Henry Grayle

LostLocke
08-03-2008, 05:20 AM
Henry Grayle
Good catch. I had forgotten all about him.

Chelsea, I like your train of thought. I always took Carrie's powers at face value, so applied them literally to Walt, and tried to think of who else on the island was "special." But I agree that symbolically they fit better with Juliet. She seems very capable of manipulating people and situations. Not psychically, but just through her own cunning and character.

JateisFate09
08-03-2008, 05:38 AM
I always thought that the fact the Juliet claims this is her favorite book was interesting. She is a bit like the Carrie figure, in that she is a misfit. Walt and Carrie (and who knows, maybe even Ben and Locke) share the power. Makes me wonder if Walt will go slighlty crazy like Carrie did and kills lots of people.

jenjinx70
08-03-2008, 05:54 AM
Here's what I got out of the book. Some of it may have been already said:

1. Jacob and Walt's abilities may mirror Carrie's powers.

2. The book itself is written very much like the episodes of lost feel. I don't know if anyone else got this feeling, but I felt as if the the interviews were written in the present, the actual story was the past (flashbacks), and the newpaper articles and books were written in the future (flashfowards).

3. Juliet is very similar to Carrie in that:
~When coming to the island she was immediately disliked. Harper didn't care for her much and I am wondering if she got along with many of the other girls.
~She came to the island under false pretenses, just like Carrie and the dance. While Sue and Tommy had good intentions and everyone appeared to be nice, there were a bunch of individuals playing the prank of voting for them under the surface. Juliet came to a place thinking she was going to somewhere completely different and was told she was leaving in a few months.
~Carrie is more that what meets the "eye". She presents herself as this meek and timid girl, but when pushed was capable of becoming the last thing anyone would have thought her to be. Juliet presents as this timid, nice, and friendly girl, but knows how to operate a gun and appears to have some sort of military-ish combat training. She can be very manipulative and we really never can tell who's "team" she's on. I think in the end Juliet is going to turn out completely different from how we perceive her. Really so much of this show is about perception.

With all of this said, I would like to know why this is Juliet's "favorite" book. There was an emphasis on that. I think that there are more parallels to the two of them that we are going to find out later in seasons 5 and 6. I think there is still a piece to the puzzle missing as to why this atypical book was chosen for her character's favorite.

chan08
08-03-2008, 08:56 AM
Carrie is a young woman who feels totally alone in the world, as does Juliet on the Island. Carrie has been lied to and decieved by her mother who is supposed to be looking after her,as has Juliet by Ben. Both Carrie and Juliet feel lost, alone and desperate. Perhaps the book is in there to offer a clue that Juliet will have a part to play in the destruction of the Island.
Also, the end of the book could be seen as a sort of purge. Perhaps there are also parallels between Carrie and a young Ben.

MikeyTay
08-03-2008, 11:00 AM
Also, the end of the book could be seen as a sort of purge. Perhaps there are also parallels between Carrie and a young Ben.

Perhaps this is why Ben didn't enjoy the book. He is reminded of his dark past?

Sheba
08-03-2008, 01:33 PM
Carrie reminds me of Ben.

- Carrie's dad died in Portland.
Ben's mum died in Portland.

- Carrie's mother delivers her baby 7 months after the dead of the dad.
Ben's mother was 7 months pregnant, when she went in labor.

- Carrie was raised bad by insane mother.
Ben was raised bad by a mourning and drunk dad.

- Carrie is a mass murderer and her mother is one of the victims.
Ben is a mass murderer and his dad is one of the victims.

Beowulf425
08-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Iv just come out of hospital so carrie will keep me busy for a little while

JonlyBonly
08-03-2008, 03:48 PM
Carrie reminds me of Ben.

- Carrie's dad died in Portland.
Ben's mum died in Portland.

- Carrie's mother delivers her baby 7 months after the dead of the dad.
Ben's mother was 7 months pregnant, when she went in labor.

- Carrie was raised bad by insane mother.
Ben was raised bad by a mourning and drunk dad.

- Carrie is a mass murderer and her mother is one of the victims.
Ben is a mass murderer and his dad is one of the victims.
Fantastic first post! :)

Sam McPherson
08-03-2008, 06:48 PM
Fantastic first post! :)

Agreed.

Trace
08-03-2008, 06:49 PM
**if you haven't finished "Carrie" yet, don't read the following, I mention a part at the end of the book****

I don't see that anyone has mentioned this, and I may be reaching anyway, but there are several mentions throughout "Carrie" about the recessive gene that would have given Carrie the telekenetic powers. At the end of the book, we find out that it is genetic in Carrie's family and that someone else has the power also.

We know that Jacob moved things around when he became angry. If he has descendents on the island (like AARON maybe?) then maybe it's a clue that we'll be seeing the same sort of abilities from Aaron.

Or, it could just be that Carrie provides us with a general understanding of telekenisis and this was likely one of the branches of parapsychology that Dharma was researching.

MikeyTay
08-03-2008, 09:19 PM
According to Lostpedia, Emilie de Ravin played the character Chris Hargensen in the 2002 television remake of Carrie.

Bregi
08-04-2008, 12:00 AM
1. henry grayle, the rector of the school - henry gale

2. carrie thinks about asking her mother if winning the lottery is a sin - hurley won the lottery and thinks it's a curse.

great book btw.

bregi

Lucy815
08-04-2008, 01:24 AM
Do you think Henry Grayle/Henry Gale is just a coincidence? ( I know I know .. don't mistake coincidence for fate. ;-) ...

Maybe Carrie is Juliet's favorite book because she wishes she had the power to destroy all the people who she blames for ruining her life.

I also thought too that if Dharma was researching parapsychology, then it would make sense that they would have Carrie in their library.

Sandra
08-04-2008, 01:56 AM
I wonder if this book really is as great for LOST as it seems to be...
the book club guy in 3x01 said it was "popcorn" and Ben wouldn't read it in the bathroom.

Maybe that's right... telekinesis is more than a "high school teenage" thing to Ben or that guy. Maybe that book seemed to be a little shallow to them in a scientific way.

But maybe they don't see that that story is about revenge, self-respect and that the outsider could turn against the leader...

chelsea07
08-04-2008, 03:02 AM
This isn't related to Lost, but I would just like to say I didn't really enjoy Carrie. It seems everyone here loves the book, but I dunno, I just didn't really get into the book. I had no emotional attachment to Carrie or any of the characters in the book and for me, that kind of made me less interested in the book.

Lucy815
08-04-2008, 03:04 AM
It's interesting to note that Ben as Henry Gale asks Locke if he has any Stephen King to read.

joeyrules
08-04-2008, 03:56 AM
Page 114: "Three joints were going, passing through the inner dark like the lambent eyes of some rotating Cerberus."

Thats all i got

i sell seals!
08-04-2008, 05:18 AM
ugh, it seems like i'm the only one who doesn't like the book so far. it's not awful, but it's not great. :/ oh well. :o

chan08
08-04-2008, 08:49 AM
I loved the book. Looking past the telekenisis, Carrie is a naive girl who feels scared, alone and as though the world is against her. I think King wrote the part of a teenage girl beautifully and I would imagine every teenage girl can relate to this at some time of their emotionally charged life. I know I definietly did! I feel attached to Carrie and would love to be able to protect her innocence. I can say this is now one of my favourite books too.

Desmond_Fan16
08-04-2008, 01:42 PM
This is the second time I have read this book but I believe Henry Gale is from the Wizard of Oz. I don't see many similarities to LOST Either.

anallegory
08-04-2008, 03:58 PM
Although there are many similarities between "Carrie" and Lost, I think the majority are just a coincidence. It's just been a book the writers have enjoyed and thought tied in with the show, gave the hardcore fans something else to sink their teeth into. What I think is more important is book's relation to Juliet. As has been said, Juliet has much in common with Carrie (social outcast, twisted "parental" figure, hidden abilities) and this combined with the notion of Carrie overthrowing those who've ruined her life, is most likely why it is Juliet's book.....or joeyrules could be right and it's just cos it mentions "Cerberus" i.e. smokey

manic monoliths
08-04-2008, 04:39 PM
Finished Carrie a while ago and I think I agree with most people here. The telekinesis is a nod to Walt, Jacob and the DI's research in parapsychology. I never noticed the outcast stuff about Juliet but I can definitely see it now. There are some more general references like deception (Ben) and mass murder (again Ben).

I wonder how Ben felt reading the book, did he notice any similarities to his own life? :)

Then my mini-book review :p
I can't say I enjoyed Carrie too much, but I think it's more of an issue with King himself as I've never really enjoyed any of his books. I think the central idea of a girl with telekinetic powers is brilliant. King always has great ideas but I never really connect with his books, I had the same problem with the Stand, great idea handled badly. The ending was quite disappointing too I felt. Like someone above said, the character's weren't great and most of them were just devices for forwarding the plot, no real character development except possibly Carrie's mother.

Someone once told me that 'you can never really 'get' King unless your from the American northwest' I don't know how much of that is true :p

Yay!! The book club has finally started :D:D

allikf
08-04-2008, 06:14 PM
2. The book itself is written very much like the episodes of lost feel. I don't know if anyone else got this feeling, but I felt as if the the interviews were written in the present, the actual story was the past (flashbacks), and the newpaper articles and books were written in the future (flashfowards).


That is exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was reading it. It felt like a Lost episode with all the back and forth. I found myself really looking forward to the excerpts from the various books, reports and articles. They provided an additional degree of insight to the events and how society was affected by them.

I missed that this was noted to be Juliet’s favorite book (what episode was that?) but I can imagine how she would long for the powers that Carrie has in order to free herself from Ben and the Island. I wonder, does this also mean that she would be willing to sacrifice herself in the process if it meant ending the pain and loneliness?
:o

usmc20032002
08-05-2008, 02:05 AM
I see Ben as Carrie. I'm sure growing up with everyone making fun of Ben and his dad blaming him for the death of his mom set him off. With no remorse, he killed his dad. And then he turns on the community. "The Purge" was just like the town that She lived in. After years of blame and problems, Jacob could only be a voice in Ben's head.

chebang
08-05-2008, 02:40 AM
Carrie reminds me of Ben.

- Carrie's dad died in Portland.
Ben's mum died in Portland.

- Carrie's mother delivers her baby 7 months after the dead of the dad.
Ben's mother was 7 months pregnant, when she went in labor.

- Carrie was raised bad by insane mother.
Ben was raised bad by a mourning and drunk dad.

- Carrie is a mass murderer and her mother is one of the victims.
Ben is a mass murderer and his dad is one of the victims.

Yes, great first entry. I love these points.

I can see how Juliet is a little like Carrie, but Ben has many more similarities.
I don't think that because Juliet chose to read this book in their book club means that it is "her" book. Maybe Juliet knew that choosing this book would upset Ben. She is always trying to find ways to hurt him.

Regarding Walt...Carrie has TK episodes when she is under very high stress. It seems that this is the same for Walt when he was younger...like making the bird fly into the door. It was deliberate, but he hadn't honed his skill so it was momentary, like Carrie being able to make it rain stones on her house when she was younger.

So Carrie in her teens was able to hone her skills and have complete control. This must be a function of brain growth. Walt is now in his teens. I am curious to see what other strange occurances will be tied to his TK ablilities.

chebang
08-05-2008, 02:46 AM
I see Ben as Carrie. I'm sure growing up with everyone making fun of Ben and his dad blaming him for the death of his mom set him off. With no remorse, he killed his dad. And then he turns on the community. "The Purge" was just like the town that She lived in. After years of blame and problems, Jacob could only be a voice in Ben's head.

What if Jacob is the embodiment of The Island's TK powers? Jacob is TK.(I think this idea has already been discussed in previous entries in the main forum.) Others have seen him, spoken to him and been in his cabin. These things don't make sense if he is just a voice in Ben's head.

usmc20032002
08-05-2008, 06:21 AM
What if the Island has the power to draw pictures/beings/sounds out of peoples heads. Could that be part of the smoke monster. Who knows?! Just a suggestion.:confused::confused::confused:

Sam McPherson
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
I actually found Carrie to be a great book. While I wouldn't consider it a classic, it's definitely a good piece of literature. Some of the characters weren't too developed, but some, like Tommy, were well-developed and I felt sad at their death.

Chris was another well-developed character, after learning she wasn't so much of a pure bitch as just abused and misunderstood.

As for Lost connections, the most obvious is of course the telekinesis. Walt and Jacob share this ability with Carrie.

There's also the religious standpoint, although none of the characters, not even Eko, are as far out as Carrie's mother.

ivan815
08-05-2008, 10:41 PM
Hi, I'm a new member of the forum and i've just finished to read the book. Well, it's a good one. I really enjoyed it. Maybe the first part was a little bit slow, but after 50 pages the story gets better and better. I love the "flashforwards" from newspapers articles etc. I haven't read the others posts, butt i'll read them soon. I think that "the book club" is a great idea. I can't wait for the next book. Sorry for my english, I'm from croatia:)

Sam McPherson
08-06-2008, 12:43 AM
Yeah. It has sort of a documentarian feel to it.

belle42
08-06-2008, 06:19 AM
My initial reaction was that Ben = Carrie (outsider, parent making child feel worthless, coming of age, mass murder 'purge'). However I do see how Juliet could be Carrie (false pretenses, more than she seems). I think the TK in the book links mostly with DHARMA rather than any specific character. I've always thought of Jacob as more of a poltergeist rather than a person with TK ability, but that's my observation.
Since this was related to the Others, I don't think it connects with Walt within the show. Also although Walt has abilities, I don't recall any TK manifestations. Walt is mainly connected with appearing in visions to others.
In any case, good beginning book for the club. Here's to hoping for many more to come!

blueeagleislander
08-06-2008, 08:22 AM
I think Ben may not like Carrie because he sees the similarities himself.

Sam McPherson
08-06-2008, 03:25 PM
I definitely agree with Bleag. It may be subconscious, but I think that's a good reason.

ivan815
08-06-2008, 10:07 PM
If you watch "the lost book club" on the 7th dvd of season 3 you'll see damond and carlton talking about carrie and saying that she is similar in many ways to juliet. Both Carrie and Juliet have problems to comunicate with other people and they are very quiet women, but they can have bad reactions.

Sorry again for my bad english.

Sam McPherson
08-06-2008, 11:39 PM
No worries. That's interesting...it's been a while since I saw that featurette. I can see the similarities with Carrie and Juliet.

Also, Carrie's last name is White. Isn't black and white a theme on Lost?

JonlyBonly
08-07-2008, 12:06 AM
I just finished reading part one. I hope to post more about what I think when my internet is working more fluidly. :) So far... I like it a lot and an enjoying the book.

LloydInPA
08-07-2008, 03:54 AM
What's up,

Yeah, I noticed the Henry Grayle thing, too... Good catch...

What strikes me the most about the book right now is the similarities between Carrie's "powers" and Walt's. When she blows the light bulb in the locker room and the stories are recounted about her bringing hail stones, it reminds me of when the polar bear shows up and chases the Losties (Walt's involved) and when Walt knocks the bird against the window...

What's everyone else think?

blueeagleislander
08-07-2008, 09:47 AM
No worries. That's interesting...it's been a while since I saw that featurette. I can see the similarities with Carrie and Juliet.

Also, Carrie's last name is White. Isn't black and white a theme on Lost?

Sure is. Have any characters got the last name Black?

MikeyTay
08-07-2008, 06:37 PM
I finished reading the book today. I really quite enjoyed it. One of the better Stephen King novels I've read.

Here's a thought...
The last paragraph of the book talks of a young girl named Annie with blonde hair and blue eyes who may also have TK. There is also a young girl of this description in Lost, who was close to Ben as a child and who's fate is still unknown. According to Cuse and Lindelof, she will play a significant part in upcoming flashbacks of Ben's life. Coincidence?...... most probably.

chelsea07
08-07-2008, 08:15 PM
I finished reading the book today. I really quite enjoyed it. One of the better Stephen King novels I've read.

Here's a thought...
The last paragraph of the book talks of a young girl named Annie with blonde hair and blue eyes who may also have TK. There is also a young girl of this description in Lost, who was close to Ben as a child and who's fate is still unknown. According to Cuse and Lindelof, she will play a significant part in upcoming flashbacks of Ben's life. Coincidence?...... most probably.

I only see the name as similar. Keep in mind Annie had green eyes and brownish hair. But, that paragraph could be foreshadowing something to do with Annie in Lost, you never know. :)

blueeagleislander
08-08-2008, 09:40 AM
I don't think he was foreshadowing a TV series that the idea for hadn't even been created at the time of writing.

nickb123
08-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I finally finished Carrie last night! :)

Throughout reading it, I was thinking "how does this relate to Juliet" and I realized it probably does in the sense of a shy girl who believes herself to me more, special. She's quashed by her peers but in the end makes somewhat of a confident stand (despite it being an evil one, its a stand nevertheless) - this kind of reflects Juliet, how she was "a mess" in her own words before the Island, and now on it she is quite manipulative and very cold at times.

I also got the theme of fate vs free will, something very much a part of Lost. The prom ticket where Carrie wins by one vote, Tommy's vote. The nature vs. nurture argument of TK.

The intermittent article references perhaps also played a part in inspiring the writers for their FB/FF formats. I enjoyed reading about something in the article sections that had happened, and then experiencing it from Carrie's view herself and how it actually transpired in her mind.

Overall, let's take one thing from this - the phrase "to rip off a Carrie" as mentioned near the back of the book.

JonlyBonly
08-08-2008, 04:32 PM
OK, I finished yesterday and here's what I think...

Carrie White had a very dark story to tell --- goes along with the light/dark themes of LOST

Carrie felt that there was a "red plague circle" around her/her house --- there is a dark grey/black circle that surrounds Jacob's cabin on the island

on page 35 from Ogilvie's Dictionary of Psychic Phenomena: "...The phenomenon is often confused with the work of poltergeists, which are playful spirits. It should be noted that poltergeists are astral beings of questionable reality, while telekinesis is thought to be an empiric function of the mind, possibly electrochemical in nature..." --- Could DHARMA have chosen a person/people to employ on the island that may have had latent “TK” abilities and subsequent work in one/more of the islands stations brought about these "electrochemical" reactions in certain of its members? Could this be where the Whispers started? Could this be where Ben picked up his feelings of being “superior” to other DHARMA members?

Also: Carrie seemed to have a way of making her "presence" felt --- I think that is very much like the Whispers being overheard by the LOSTies in/around the jungle.

Sue Snell mentions having a friend named Jeanne Gault --- we have a Cpt. Gault on board the freighter.

Henry Grayle --- Henry Gayle

Billy and his friends driving to the farm for the pig-blood: Three joints were going, passing through the inner dark like the lambent (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lambent) eyes of some rotating Cerberus. --- Smokey does rotate in clouds of darkness while flickers of memory are snatched from it's pray.

chelsea07
08-08-2008, 09:17 PM
I don't think he was foreshadowing a TV series that the idea for hadn't even been created at the time of writing.

I didn't mean Stephen King was literally showing us what will happen in Lost. That doesn't even make sense lol. I meant it could be possible that that paragraph could have some relation to Annie from Lost and maybe the Writers using Carrie in Lost was their way of telling us to read the book because it might hint towards some info on Annie (the Lost characters). I don't really believe that, I think it's a coincidence, but I was just saying anything's possible.

Destai
08-08-2008, 11:28 PM
I finished the book, and I agree there are some parallels that can be drawn.

Admittedly, I kept thinking about Juliet when I read this. The "book club" extra on the Season Three dvds makes some passing reference to how it's sort of like her character. And she says it's her "favorite" book. Generally, I find that the books I like most are ones where I can see myself in the characters or the plot. (I think Lost is the one TV show I really like where I can't relate to anyone whatsoever.)

Carrie has never fit in, been the butt of every joke, always the outcast. However, she's got this special gift. It takes a moment of extreme stress to bring it out, and eventually it leads to destruction, death and her downfall.

I imagine Juliet's upbringing the same way... In the Juliet-centric flashbacks, she's quiet, shy, and has trouble making friends when she's first on the Island. She's the fertility doctor, the scientist, a hope to give life where life shouldn't be. When Richard Alpert comes to recruit her, he tells her this power to create life is a wonderful "gift." So Juliet can also be seen as a shy, quiet girl with a gift that isolates her from her peers. It took a catalyst--her sister's infertility from cancer--to bring out that gift. Really, in all of the Juliet flashbacks, there's a similar catalyst--Ben "curing" her sister's cancer, Goodwin's death, etc--that further serve to isolate her from the rest of the Others, even though we don't see a reoccurance of her scientific breakthrough.

However, as compared to the "present" Island time Juliet, she's a changed woman. She's cunning, deceptive, takes lives without blinking... What changed? Perhaps there's some other catalyst, her own "prom night" of the soul so to speak that causes her to change so during her time on the Island. Maybe we'll see that in the upcoming episodes.

I some interesting comparisons could be made to the fact that TK is a recessive genetic trait. The book makes a big to do about blood and blood coming from "sin" and all that. In the ARG stuff, there's a passing reference to Alvar Hanso's blood being "unusual." Walt's mom died of a rare blood disorder... Walt's also seen as "special" and having "gifts" and has made TK-like things with birds happen. Could it be something recessive in his blood, as in Carrie? Time will tell.

Those are my thoughts. I also like whoever mentioned that the book is similar in structure to the flash-forward episodes. Awesome comparison! :)

nickb123
08-09-2008, 12:12 AM
I finished the book, and I agree there are some parallels that can be drawn.

Admittedly, I kept thinking about Juliet when I read this. The "book club" extra on the Season Three dvds makes some passing reference to how it's sort of like her character. And she says it's her "favorite" book. Generally, I find that the books I like most are ones where I can see myself in the characters or the plot. (I think Lost is the one TV show I really like where I can't relate to anyone whatsoever.)

Carrie has never fit in, been the butt of every joke, always the outcast. However, she's got this special gift. It takes a moment of extreme stress to bring it out, and eventually it leads to destruction, death and her downfall.

I imagine Juliet's upbringing the same way... In the Juliet-centric flashbacks, she's quiet, shy, and has trouble making friends when she's first on the Island. She's the fertility doctor, the scientist, a hope to give life where life shouldn't be. When Richard Alpert comes to recruit her, he tells her this power to create life is a wonderful "gift." So Juliet can also be seen as a shy, quiet girl with a gift that isolates her from her peers. It took a catalyst--her sister's infertility from cancer--to bring out that gift. Really, in all of the Juliet flashbacks, there's a similar catalyst--Ben "curing" her sister's cancer, Goodwin's death, etc--that further serve to isolate her from the rest of the Others, even though we don't see a reoccurance of her scientific breakthrough.

However, as compared to the "present" Island time Juliet, she's a changed woman. She's cunning, deceptive, takes lives without blinking... What changed? Perhaps there's some other catalyst, her own "prom night" of the soul so to speak that causes her to change so during her time on the Island. Maybe we'll see that in the upcoming episodes.

I some interesting comparisons could be made to the fact that TK is a recessive genetic trait. The book makes a big to do about blood and blood coming from "sin" and all that. In the ARG stuff, there's a passing reference to Alvar Hanso's blood being "unusual." Walt's mom died of a rare blood disorder... Walt's also seen as "special" and having "gifts" and has made TK-like things with birds happen. Could it be something recessive in his blood, as in Carrie? Time will tell.

Those are my thoughts. I also like whoever mentioned that the book is similar in structure to the flash-forward episodes. Awesome comparison! :)
Awesome summary.

Sam McPherson
08-09-2008, 12:15 AM
Indeed it is. I don't think I could follow-up to that.

LloydInPA
08-09-2008, 06:23 AM
Does anyone get the same feeling when they read the part of the book when Carrie's wreaking havoc (towards the end) as they did when they watched the opening sequence of the show (LOST, OF COURSE)?

I kind of did...

Just a thought...

Maybe this sense of destruction was an inspiration for the show's opening sequence with fires bursting up everywhere and total chaos...

LloydInPA
08-09-2008, 06:25 AM
There REALLY have been some AWESOME thoughts on this thread...

This is really rewarding for me...

blueeagleislander
08-09-2008, 08:14 AM
Yeah, Book Club is great atm. Hopefully this will continue for every other book.

Sawyerissexy
08-09-2008, 10:24 PM
Finished the book and loved it. My first taste of Stephen King, he's really great. I read through this thread and really must agree that Carrie acting as a outcast nerd type who eventually gets revenge is much more like Ben than Juliet. I also agree that's probably why Ben didn't like the book. What I'm wondering is does Juliet know that Ben did the whole purge business? Because that would seem why she would want to make Ben read this book.

blueeagleislander
08-10-2008, 06:05 AM
What I'm wondering is does Juliet know that Ben did the whole purge business? Because that would seem why she would want to make Ben read this book.

Whoa, I had never thought of that.

hvisc
08-10-2008, 06:22 PM
Incredible insights, all of you...I feel like there's absolutely nothing more I can add, or subtract for that matter. The remarks about Juliet/Carrie are pretty astute, and I certainly agree that it's probably the most accurate comparison to be made.

LloydInPA
08-13-2008, 03:03 AM
The Juliet/Carrie comparison is quite striking, but I wouldn't count out the Walt/Carrie comparison...

When Carrie becomes repressed or anxious, her "powers" come out...

The same is true of Walt...

Juliet DID mention the book in the show pretty heavily, though...

THOUGHTS?

MikeyTay
08-13-2008, 12:54 PM
There seems to be mixed opinions of which Lost character can be most directly related to Carrie. Maybe we should have a vote.

I would say she reminds me of Ben more than Walt or Juliet.

allikf
08-13-2008, 09:06 PM
There seems to be mixed opinions of which Lost character can be most directly related to Carrie. Maybe we should have a vote.

I would say she reminds me of Ben more than Walt or Juliet.

I think Carrie inspired the writers in numerous ways and lead to an influence on several characters as well as the show’s basic flash-back/flash-forward design concept. I think voting on what character is most Carrie-like disrupts the point of the discussion. I would rather discuss what the writers are trying to tell us about these characters through the interconnections with the book. I love the idea that Juliet may know (or believe) something about Ben (like the purge) that would make reading this book unpleasant for him. It’s beautifully passive aggressive. Although I can’t imagine that it’s something she would find out from Ben directly (Did I ever tell you about the time I killed everyone on this island? Funny story, it all started with my a$$ of a father…) So its either common knowledge with the Others (which I also doubt) or she picked the book because she identifies with Carrie and feels like Ben’s oppressive behavior is like Carrie’s mom. The fact that Ben has this dark secret that makes the book even more unpleasant for him is just icing on the cake.

nickb123
08-14-2008, 01:19 AM
I think Carrie inspired the writers in numerous ways and lead to an influence on several characters as well as the show’s basic flash-back/flash-forward design concept. I think voting on what character is most Carrie-like disrupts the point of the discussion. I would rather discuss what the writers are trying to tell us about these characters through the interconnections with the book. I love the idea that Juliet may know (or believe) something about Ben (like the purge) that would make reading this book unpleasant for him. It’s beautifully passive aggressive. Although I can’t imagine that it’s something she would find out from Ben directly (Did I ever tell you about the time I killed everyone on this island? Funny story, it all started with my a$$ of a father…) So its either common knowledge with the Others (which I also doubt) or she picked the book because she identifies with Carrie and feels like Ben’s oppressive behavior is like Carrie’s mom. The fact that Ben has this dark secret that makes the book even more unpleasant for him is just icing on the cake.
Indeed. And let us not forget that Ben also has a religious style cupboard! Though I doubt he ever made Juliet go sit and pray for forgiveness in it....

LloydInPA
08-14-2008, 02:19 AM
There seems to be mixed opinions of which Lost character can be most directly related to Carrie. Maybe we should have a vote.

I would say she reminds me of Ben more than Walt or Juliet.

Great thoughts...

I'd say there are elements of Carrie in all of these characters...

i sell seals!
08-14-2008, 08:02 AM
i finished it and i agree that there are pieces of carrie in a lot of the characters. some i haven't seen mentioned are:

locke: carrie was a cute kid who had special powers who was tramped down by her mom. locke was a cute kid who had special powers and was given up by his mom. he also is reviled by the other kids and tries to hide his special abilities and works not to develop them. also: his mom lied to him about how he was conceived. and carrie's mom lied to her about all the sexual maturity stuff.

jack: the whole parallel between carrie's mom punishing her to try to mold her into being what she wanted carrie to be seems akin to what christian said he did to jack to make him into a stronger person.

again, these aren't 1:1, but i don't think any of them are. :)

fiver.11
08-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Book review
Approx:read time: 6 hours
Chapters:3 Parts
Narration goes from events from 1960 (approx.) (Carries Mothers life) to 1986 (book by Sue Snell)switches from first person to third person depending on context

*spoilers regarding Carrie and Fight Club*
Probably a really good book to start with for a book club for Lost due to its relatively short length compared to Watership Down and The Fountain head.
Carrie is Stephen Kings first book published gives enough reason why his name in work is so popular.
From the outset we know the book will end badly. It mentions it several times via book excerpts and news articles from the future perspective giving the event of the Prom credence. Foreshadowing it and gives the events we know is coming, and wishing it didn’t, make it clear and that’s the only way it COULD happen.
Carrie and her Mother are by far the most deep and rounded characters, her mother a one dimensional fanatic, however, is not given any reason where her fanatsism comes from is the only fault I have with it. Working on several levels 1) is the spiritual Christian level viewpoint from her mother, and leaves one wondering if her mother was correct about the forces of evil working through Carrie, her powers the embodiment of all her mothers fears and hypocrisy manifesting itself. 2) A Morality tale of the common theme of the loner who is consistently picked on and ridiculed 3)since we are given multiple view points from most parties during the event and then having the Monday night quarterback viewpoint of the newspaper articles, we are given both a bird eyes view and first POV of all parties involved and gives emphasis as Carrie as an anti hero/ sympathetic heroine and a tragedy waiting to happen. She is not a callas completely void woman who strikes in vengeance but a fragile piece of Earth that would eventually crack and explode. It is inevitable, even if you didn’t know the book through pop culture and the future viewpoints were omitted while reading it, the Prom Events WOULD take place.
Even the “good” characters with best intentions, and they push her unintentially to the outcome.
Another topic to discuss is the overall tone of the book which features less on the victims and even in the articles presented post Prom are very compassionate towards Carrie and treat her both as a victim AND a force of Nature, act of God, depending on how you take the religious tones. It leaves it to debate whether Carrie was sent by God as a wrathful burning sward. It also argues Nature Vs. Nuture.

To me the parallels between Lost are not only in mood, narration and the way information is given out from future to present events, but also in charatization. Either for Walt or Juliet, Carries persona is evident. Juliet would be able to identify with Carrie, a hapless fragile girl that strives to be strong and has more powerful than anyone would want. Almost a vengeful fantasy for her. “see , this is like me, so you better be careful, I am more powerful than I even know” . She’s not described as a murderer or evil. As for a comparison of Walt (and Juliet) Carrie is immature, not given the proper nurturing background that could have prevented this in her more mature state should would be able to control them and react less to negative emotions. Walt, by his age and not his up bringing , from the negative view of his mother and step father, And now Michael is gone from his life. His Grandmother does show some loving via protectiveness of her grandson, so we have to wait and see how that develops. Juliet is shown as fragile as Carrie, naïve and also emotionally immature in her flashbacks when dealing with her ex and others. (no pun intended) its not until she’s been on the island for some time and dealing with Goodwin’s wife and Ben do we see her get strong and forceful but her background does show a loving and deep relationship wither her sister, which may have given her grounding.
Cast of Characters and possible Links with Lost Characters

Carrie protagonist focus picked on, attacked and humiliated girl of 16 with Telekinies taking revenge on the town)
Possible Lost Character Juliet:Obviously loves the book and possibly identifies with the character as we have seen her both meek and bold after he reached the Island.. also there can be made an arugment for her sharing the same love hate relationship she has with herself that Carrie does. IMHO most applicable link.
Possible Lost Character Walt: Child of Michael Dawson with mysterious powers that were being harnessed by the DI. Shares qualities of abadoment and lack of maturity with Carrie and misunderstanding of others intentions, mainly his father.

Margaret White: antognist(focus mother of Carrie and fanatical religious zeolot who inidantes Carrie with Christian doctrine and makes her believe she is evil, not a warm affectionate parent. Carrie at the end craves for her mothers love.
Possible Lost Character Juliet’s Ex/Ben Linus for Juliet: Both characters either belittle Juilet or control her. Ben assumption is that he would claim her as his and his alone. The Ex degrades and belittles her while she is in her meek state.
Possible Lost Character Unknown for Walt There are many possibilites that Walt could look at as such a controller force over him as Carries mother was to Carrie. Locke/Michael/The Others.

Sue Snell-Foil: Most of the events and humanization of Carrie is seen through Sue Snell’s percepective. She tries to amend and make up for her past deeds by making her Boyfreind Tommy go to the Prom with Carrie. This character and her perspective is how (IMHO) Stephen King wanted the reader to view Carrie and relate to the most as a reader
Possible Lost Character Juliet’s Sister Helps humanize and depends on Juliet while she is sick, grounds her, possible if Sue Snell acted quicker they may have had a similar relationship.
Possible Lost Character for Walt, Locke: Locke sees something special in Walt from the start and tries to harness and encourage to the boy, however his motives are unknown. We do see Walt enjoy Lockes advise and mentoring.

Tommy: Sue Snell’s Boyfriend and Coach Dergusaon –Takes Carrie to the ball. His intentions are good and he is a rarity as being both popular , charming, athletic and compassionate. To me he is the symbol of all that both Carrie and Sue want in life. Very one dimensional character and possibly written as such. The coach is sympathetic towards Carrie is more rounded out, trying to mentor her and feels sympathy for Carrie
Possible Lost Character Goodwin for Juliet—As viewers we don’t know much about Goodwin, he seems afalable and well intentioned, working for the others however he cold heartly killed someone who seemed innocent of anything. However in “Carrie” context we see Juliet sleep with Goodwin and continue a relationship with her. By the others there is an air of repect and likability about him. He is used as a pawn by Ben and is killed by a 815 survior (Ana Lucia) who, again Ben manipulates Juliet that Goodwin has taken a fancy to Ana, trying to divorce her from Goodwin.
Possible Lost Character Locke for Walt: again for Walt, Locke seems to be the ideal and mentor that Michael has spereated him from.
Another connection Michael himself. , someone he both admired and had failed him (who tells there 9 year old that he killed 2 innocent people anyway?!) Michale, as many fathers may be an ideal that Walt wants to be. The coach might be more of an applicable fit for Locke.


Christine and Billy:Antognists: both characters delight in ridiculing and have a vengeance towards both Carrie and Sue, and what they represent. As Billy character becomes more investigated we see an almost cold hearted compassionate Man, as Christine’s character is developed we see her soften towards Carrie. Both had instrumed the “prank” that lead to the eventual ruin of both Carrie and the town. Both represent the worst in society.
Possible Lost character Ben/and Juliet’s Therepist( Goodwins wife) Both characters seem to try and destroy who Juliet has become however Goodwins wife seems more worried about Goodwins fate then Juliet herself, she may even resemble Sue Snell in that way. Ben is easily trying to kill the Juliet we know. The strong willed woman.
Possible Lost character Unknown for Walt: possible the others however their intentions have never been made clear when it comes to Walt


Other similar themes connected to Lost is the narrative switching from past perspective to “present” persepective and to “future” perspective. Telling the story in a mosaic form
We are given pieces of the story ie stones falling on the house, and then half way through the book the incedent is elaborated on and more focus and persepetive is seen.

“Carries” impact on Lost and possible reason for its inclusion: To me “carrie” was used to shed light on Juliet’s character, another wink to Stephen King, and to show how certain flow of narration can work. Strikingly though since its Juliet’s favoire book she may and probably does empathize with the main character, which can speak a lot about her own character. The book was introduced in Season 3’s opening “Tale of Two Cities and came along with Juliet’s introduction, only later do we find out how much she does resemble Carrie in her meekness and shyness. This is akin to saying that “Fight Club” is my favorite book and how I can empathize with the narrator (never given a name-played by Edward Norton in the movie), but that does not nessairly mean I have an alter ego of Tyler Durden, but I feel I share many of the same darker view points and outlooks that the Narrator has that I myself would not care to admit to.. So it also goes that Juliet may not have anything special about her supernatural wise, but it suregives us an insight into her.
Again all in my humble opionion.

fiver.11
08-15-2008, 01:04 AM
sorry for the long post, I didnt mean it to be a bok, just an analysis

Thanks
5r11

etshadow
08-15-2008, 01:06 PM
Does no one catch the flashbacks and flashforwards that go with the main storyline. That is the biggest connection I see to Lost. The TK abilities that Carrie has were explained to be in females only so Juliet is the most likely similar. As for the birds you would have to be talking about the ones that flew into the glass door. "Room 23" did not say it was Walt. Remember Karl was in that room watching the "1984" style film "Jacob is Love" (Big Brother is Love).

etshadow
08-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Since the book is mentioned so much around Juliet on the show I would agree to the similarities. So did the others hit her ex with the bus or did she "wish" it to happen.

blueeagleislander
08-15-2008, 04:04 PM
So did the others hit her ex with the bus or did she "wish" it to happen.

All of the above.

fiver.11
08-15-2008, 08:19 PM
I think if you filmed "Carrie" directly from the book you would get something that easily resembles "lost". The Sissy Spacek movie is Linear where the books is very non linear like "lost".
so i do agree

allikf
08-15-2008, 08:42 PM
Since the book is mentioned so much around Juliet on the show I would agree to the similarities. So did the others hit her ex with the bus or did she "wish" it to happen.

Ooooo I had never considered that! OMG

etshadow
08-16-2008, 05:05 AM
I think if you filmed "Carrie" directly from the book you would get something that easily resembles "lost". The Sissy Spacek movie is Linear where the books is very non linear like "lost".
so i do agree
I agree. I think it would be cool to redo the original. But no one can do Piper the same way.

belle42
08-16-2008, 08:43 PM
I agree. I think it would be cool to redo the original. But no one can do Piper the same way.

It was redone in 2002. The style more resembled the book than the 1976 version, however the ending was different from the book.

Also, the 2002 version had Emilie de Ravin as Chris. (only obvious tie-in cinematically I have found)

etshadow
08-17-2008, 01:49 AM
Thanks for the information on the remake. I will have to look for it someday.

hawthorne_abendsen
08-18-2008, 06:14 PM
As I read the book, I couldn't help but think of the White's house as akin to Jacob's cabin in LOST. Both places are supernatural edifices in a seemingly monotonous, known setting (the White's house in a quiet Maine town, Jacob's cabin in an island jungle). Especially when Carrie returns to her home for the last time - her mother lies in wait for her, and pictures and dishes and things begin to be thrown around the room as Carrie arrives. I could almost imagine this same event happening in Jacob's cabin, with Carrie's mother in a rocking chair, rocking silently back and forth, a knife hidden in her apron.

Someone mentioned that Emilie de Ravin played Chris in the remake of the movie. It's odd because I would figure her as more of the Sue Snell type.

Sawyerissexy
08-19-2008, 02:29 AM
oooh good jacob's cabin catch hawthorne! some real good similarities

markno
08-21-2008, 04:12 AM
One thing I thought was interesting about Carrie was how EVERYONE knew it was her who was destroying the town. Was that another part of the telekenesis power? If so, that could have massive implications - could she have eventually manipulated people's thoughts (just as she does with objects) - but then she didn't live and didn't have a chance to refine that skills.
Maybe that's what Jacob can do to Locke, Ben?

belle42
08-21-2008, 06:00 AM
One thing I thought was interesting about Carrie was how EVERYONE knew it was her who was destroying the town. Was that another part of the telekenesis power? If so, that could have massive implications - could she have eventually manipulated people's thoughts (just as she does with objects) - but then she didn't live and didn't have a chance to refine that skills.
Maybe that's what Jacob can do to Locke, Ben?

I always took that as they 'knew' it was her because she was different and didn't fit in. It is like an 'other' mentality - we didn't do it, it was THEM!

ivalum21
08-21-2008, 07:07 PM
I really think the similarities with Lost and Carrie are with the "structure" of the two, rather than "this character reminds me of this character."

The Lost writers are too creative to rip off King's characters for their own show, there's no point to the writers creating Juliet just so they can work in a Carrie-like character.

The most obvious similarity are the flash forwards (or flash backs, however you look at it) in the book. By using the fictional writings like "Telekinesis: Analysis and Aftermath" and "The Shadow Exploded," King was able to give us the story of Carrie in a very Tarantino-like fashion, or Tarantino gives us his stuff in a very King-like fashion...

With that said though, I could concede one point, that if any Lost character has similarities to Carrie, it would be Ben. With the bad parenting, his outcast personality, and his manipulating nature...I could concede that point. And that might also explain why he hates the book...

Good read though, Juliet's book club member is right though, it's really depressing. Right as Carrie starts coming out of her shell, Chris and Billy ruin it completely.

CharlieReyes23
08-22-2008, 11:57 PM
On page 194 at the end of the 3rd paragraph in parentheses it says fire and water the name of the 12th episode of season 2.:cool:

nickb123
08-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Reminder - the live chat is at 2pm EST or 7pm BST.

Check out the blog for details on how to install IRC chat, or run it in your browser using this link (http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/lostpedia)

UPDATE - Thanks to those who turned up for the live chat - it was fun! I'm unsticking the thread, but its always open!

peterjames
08-28-2008, 07:30 AM
well after reading carrie i didnt really pick up to much, besdies the obvious ; henry grayle, and the t.k power which similar to walts, the way the story has flashbacks as well as flashforwards..

so then i researched stephen king himself;
wat i found was a bit interesting i thought.

he was born in portland - like ben was born very near portland
king used to names as 'pen names' those being JOHN and RICHARD
and the other thing was that his father abanded in him when he was young.

in someway locke's dad abanded him and so did bens dad.

so its like stephen king is like ben or locke (the two main leaders of the others)

peterjames
08-28-2008, 07:32 AM
and p.s i wouldnt mind particapating in these live chats.

but im not keen getting up at 3am for them :)
lol

(being from Australia)

chebang
08-28-2008, 06:50 PM
I always took that as they 'knew' it was her because she was different and didn't fit in. It is like an 'other' mentality - we didn't do it, it was THEM!

Well, actually the witnesses who were interviewed or questioned about The Event, said they "knew" it was Carrie, but couldn't really answer why. Like her TK abilities somehow make her "present" in others minds that are in the vicinity of the TK activity. The strongest example of this kind of communication comes at the end of the novel when Sue finds Carrie dying after her mom stabbed her. There is a very strange unspoken conversation between the two that takes place somewhere in their minds, in their thoughts.

thebigbosh
01-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Can somebody tell me what the teacher says to Chris in the changing room please, i.e. that causes her Dad to come in and complain about verbal abuse? The translation that I'm reading hasn't got it right, I'm thinking. Cheers