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tohdom
10-12-2009, 06:34 AM
Lost Rewatch Episode Discussion for "Confirmed Dead"
(Oct 12 - Oct 18)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Confirmed_Dead

MM0602
10-17-2009, 10:00 PM
This is an awesome episode! Don't think there was a single bad second :). I think the opener for this episode would have been a better way to open the season (and a more traditional one), and then gone into the Hurley flashforwards. But anyway, I wish there had been time in the season for the planned freighties centrics :( especially Charlotte. I liked the ones they got in season 5 but I'd have liked them to have more than one flashback. Though I guess there's still hope for Miles next season.

Lost Fan 4815162342
10-19-2009, 05:11 AM
Charlotte began to annoy me from the beginning. So I was pleased when Ben shot her. Even made a little tribute comic:


http://forum.lostpedia.com/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=13329


Well, it was the thought that counts, I guess.

Couple other points of interest:


Who beat up Ben this episode: Sawyer, twice
Taller Ghost Walt told Locke about the freighter people and that they were triouble. Are we to assume TGW is smokie/X? Real Walt was in school in the U.S. So smokie doesn't actually need a dead body?

MM0602
10-19-2009, 05:15 AM
Haha, nice comic :p. I actually like Charlotte. Her flashback and arrival on the island in this episode are so cute knowing her backstory. I was so surprised when she got shot XD

Dr. Chameleon
10-28-2009, 02:40 AM
Taller Ghost Walt told Locke about the freighter people and that they were triouble. Are we to assume TGW is smokie/X? Real Walt was in school in the U.S. So smokie doesn't actually need a dead body?



I'm wondering about that, too. Specifically, was this "Walt" sent by Ben since he was the one who most desperately did not want the boat to come to the island? This may very well be related to "The Other Woman," when Harper appears accompanied by whispers, just like Walt, and tells Juliet to go stop Dan and Charlotte at the Tempest (which, if she had followed her orders, would've got everyone killed -- presumably exactly what Ben wanted to save his own skin).

I'm sort of baffled as to why Charlotte wouldn't believe that flight 815 crashed, her connection is to Dharma and the island, not to anyone on the plane.

tohdom
10-28-2009, 10:48 AM
Why would Ben shot Lock and then sent Walt to him?!

Dr. Chameleon
10-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Why would Ben shot Lock and then sent Walt to him?!

Hmm, good point. Ben had just found out about Naomi when he shot Locke, but he already knew about the boat because of Michael.

I guess my problem is that I don't see why "the island" would want Locke to stop the boat people from coming when Ben was the one most in jeopardy. I suppose if it is Walt, somehow, he'd be worried about protecting people, but then Walt doesn't act like he knows anything off island, certainly not that his father died, for example.

I hope they clear this up in S5.

Just Thinking
11-05-2009, 03:36 AM
I still don't get Walt in the story at all except as motivation for Michael to do stuff. And what's with John and the continuing weather predictions -it's going to stop raining in a minute- that's not just outdoorsman skills.

Sawyer having to see John's wounds to believe he was left to die- Doubting Thomas and JC anyone?

Oh- and extremely funny- John just about to shoot Ben because he won't tell him-"What is the smoke monster?!?"

karategrrl
11-07-2009, 03:18 PM
Bea asked if Walt had ever showed up somewhere he wasn't supposed to be...I think it was more then Ben trying to save himself and more along the line of different forces trying to protect the island...


I'm still confused about...If Ben and the others know so much about everyone, why don't they know about the connection Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel have with the island and Dharma. And Daniel...He was an other by birth...

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
11-08-2009, 04:14 AM
I think the opening of this episode, with Faraday crying would've been a better season opener than the "I'm one of the Oceanic Six!" opener. It would've been more in the tradition of having a new character open a new season a la S2-Des and S3-Juliet.

DocGiggles
11-10-2009, 09:48 AM
I think the opening of this episode, with Faraday crying would've been a better season opener than the "I'm one of the Oceanic Six!" opener. It would've been more in the tradition of having a new character open a new season a la S2-Des and S3-Juliet.

And then it flashes to Daniel getting on the copter :eek:

mattepntr
11-11-2009, 08:43 AM
I think this one of the top 5 best written and directed episodes of the show. It gets better every time I see it.
Love the intros of the new characters, the action is exciting, the music is GREAT in this ep, just everything. I agree this should have been the season opener. It just feels like one.

Looking back over the whole show, it's immensely satisfying to see the Losties in this ep. I think the freighter folk probably expected to find a bunch of scared, hungry, dirty survivors desperate to be saved. Instead, they found an army.

This ep also has one of my favorite Jack moments of the whole series-

DAN: Its Charlotte, only three kilometers from here.

MILES: Alright then, let's go get her.

[Jack and Kate don't move]

MILES: I said let's go.

JACK: You need to put the guns down.

MILES: What?

JACK: Put the guns down.

MILES: Now why would I do that?

JACK: Because our friends are out in the jungle right now holding a gun at your head, and his head. So I'm gonna forget about the misunderstanding, just put the guns down.

MILES: Come on, how stupid do you think I...

[Miles and Dan duck as gunshots fire. Sayid and Juliet appear from the jungle. Kate takes Dan's gun]

JACK: I dunno, Miles, how stupid are ya?

Ten tons of awesome.

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
11-24-2009, 01:05 AM
I really enjoyed this episode after having the season opener of "TBOTE". This was so much better!! "Confirmed Dead" was just a well written, well planned out episode. We are introduced to the science team and each one has mysteries surrounding them.

I loved the opening where we get to see the salvage vessel searching supposedly for the Black Rock wreckage. Seeing this airplane on the bottom of the ocean was a great "WHAT???" moment. :D

Daniel is the most interesting of the 4 people on the team. He is the one to give us some clues that this is no ordinary place. We hear about the light not scattering right and the famous experiment with the rocket and the irregular time lapse.

John finally gets to be leader and he doesn't have a good start at it when he can't find the cabin again. I assume that "Walt" told him to go there but I'm not sure why. Whoever "Walt" is, it didn't want these freighter people on the island and we know that the primary objective was to take Ben off the island so could "Walt" have wanted to prevent this from happening?

I liked the off island scene with Miles. He reminded me of Malkin. I think he has true powers but also is a con man too. Miles loves money and does whatever he needs to do to make it. It was nice to see that he is not a total jerk and even gives the woman back the extra money once he found the money behind the wall. The picture frames changing still bothers me and I hope it wasn't just an error on TPTB part because it seemed so deliberate to show they had changed.

I wish we could have seen Charlotte do more anthropology work on the island but I guess the short season didn't help. I like how they eventually connected her to the island as a child but there seemed to be more to her story as we saw her die in season 5. Especially the fact that she spoke of the well and also spoke the strange language. I never thought of why Ben wanted her dead at first but I realized that he knew this woman was coming to take him off the island and he had to kill her.

It was a nice way to connect Frank to flight 815 as the original pilot and the reason he was selected by Widmore may have more to do with that than Frank's flying skills. He also needed to be an excellent pilot to keep flying them through that "hole/bearing" time after time.

I think Naomi was actually more in the dark about the mission and Charles Widmore than any of the rest of the team. Abaddon tells her, "don't ask questions, just do what you were hired for." She was only meant to protect the team so that they could take Ben off the island but she failed by being killed in the end. I don't believe she knew anything about the survivors of 815 or the fake plane at the bottom of the ocean.

We also got a little hint that George and Brandon must have went out on the zodiac and went crazy as Frank tells Miles to hang up the phone if George answers.

Seeing Ben take one beating after another just shows how resilient he is. Even when John is ready to kill him, and I believe he would have this time, Ben lies about the BSM but maintains enough control to blurt out Charlotte's life story as a diversion to him being killed. Ben always gives just a little truth mixed in with his lies. "Because I know what they want." "Me James, they want me." "Because I have a man on their boat." :eek:

mattepntr
11-24-2009, 04:07 AM
I loved the opening where we get to see the salvage vessel searching supposedly for the Black Rock wreckage. Seeing this airplane on the bottom of the ocean was a great "WHAT???" moment. :D

I agree, but the Black Rock is never mentioned. Just a generic salvage mission looking for "sunken trading ships".

Steve French
11-25-2009, 01:23 AM
Back up, handsome

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
11-25-2009, 07:01 PM
I agree, but the Black Rock is never mentioned. Just a generic salvage mission looking for "sunken trading ships".

Well, if you go to the Black Rock page on Lostpedia it is confirmed by Damon Lindelof that the Christiane I during "Confirmed" is indeed searching for the Black Rock whether or not it was mentioned. He also states that there is also another hidden mission that wasn't mentioned. Damon confirms that they consider the Christiane I as canon material. :)

mattepntr
11-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Well, if you go to the Black Rock page on Lostpedia it is confirmed by Damon Lindelof that the Christiane I during "Confirmed" is indeed searching for the Black Rock whether or not it was mentioned. He also states that there is also another hidden mission that wasn't mentioned. Damon confirms that they consider the Christiane I as canon material. :)

I think the Christiane I was not searching for sunken ships at all. I think Widmore sent it specifically to find the plane wreckage. Why go through all the trouble and expense of faking the wreckage if it's never found?

Richard Was Here
11-27-2009, 11:22 PM
This is a pretty good episode.

Interesting that the salvage crew was looking for The Black Rock. I mean, presumably Widmore sent them, since he planted the plane in just the right location for it to be found....and he knew that the Black Rock was not on the bottom of any ocean.

I love how Ben almost gets killed about 3 times in this episode....and beaten to a plup twice. I also LOVE how Sawyer was right and Locke hand to admit to him that perhaps they'd made a mistake to let Ben live.

Interesting flashbacks in this one...although we don't get nearly enough about Daniel, IMO. Sitting in front of that TV crying made no sense at this point in the series. At least the other flashbacks gave us some info about the freighter folks. Especially Miles and Charlotte.

I also agree with mattepntr above, about that part where Jack tells Miles and Daniel to put down the guns and when Miles starts to refuse, Sayid and Juliet come out of the jungle. This is actually one of my favorite Sayid moments too...because he has that little smile on his face....almost to say "Come on! Reach for it, Miles! Make my day!"

This whole little scene only shows how island saavy the Losties had become by that time. Only few months before, they were greener than Miles and Daniel...and now they are downright menacing!

Excellent!

Black_Rock
11-28-2009, 12:08 AM
I guess my problem is that I don't see why "the island" would want Locke to stop the boat people from coming when Ben was the one most in jeopardy. .

I think "the island" is manipulating the series of events, much like the mouse trap game. Some of these seem to be in favor of The Others. Some seem in favor of outside forces. Some are in favor of the Losties. The hatch had to blow so that the island would be seen. The island had to be seen for the frieghter to come. The mercenaries had to put Ben in jeopardy in order for him to move the island. The island had to move to get Locke to leave, die, and bring everyone back so that X could trick Ben into killing Jacob.

But there is a far more important question in this episode. How did Christian trick the polar bear into turning the donkey wheel? :D If that poor bear was accidently beamed underground into a sand dune by Dharma...poor bastard.

zeus22
11-30-2009, 06:14 PM
We never really got a satisfying answer as to why Daniel was crying at the news of Flight 815 being found. In "The Variable" he said something like, "It's just so sad. All those people are dead." It seems like it was being built up to be something more, but maybe that's just me.

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
11-30-2009, 06:16 PM
^agreed. That explanation is kinda murky. I just assume it was some kind of "memory of something that hadn't happened yet"...?

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
12-02-2009, 10:46 PM
I think the Christiane I was not searching for sunken ships at all. I think Widmore sent it specifically to find the plane wreckage. Why go through all the trouble and expense of faking the wreckage if it's never found?

Well, as I mentioned before, Lostpedia states that there was another hidden mission and I assume that this was to find the fake wreckage of Oceanic flight 815. Remember how surprised these guys voices were when they actually came upon it as they scanned the ocean floor? They were shocked to find it because that wasn't their primary mission as Daniel would say! :D Of course Charles wanted it to be found after going to all that trouble to put it there but he covered it up by using a story of looking for the Black Rock instead.

sdorian
01-08-2010, 08:10 AM
Sawyer was right, that Ben was formulating a plan to kill Locke...

I don't think it was necessary for Jack et al. to point guns at Miles and Daniel and take their guns away...if they truly believed the freighterfolk are there to rescue them. Guess they did it because Daniel said it wasn't their primary goal, and to give the Losties the upper hand (Jack's always got to be in charge), and maybe because Ben, Locke, and Charlie created enough doubt.

Charlotte in Tunisia: guess one of the polar bears turned the donkey wheel

After everything, it's almost refreshing to meet someone like Daniel, who's just upfront and honest about everything. :) can't mistake him for malicious or manipulative (well I suppose you could suspect anybody, but he seems genuine)

So: Charlotte was born on the island (DI), and Miles' (DI) and Daniel's (Other) parents were on the island. much closer connections that the Losties.

Naomi said Oceanic's dead. Charlotte acted surprised. and Miles and Daniel don't seem surprised. I wonder what purpose Naomi had for telling them about the reported found plane, or if she genuinely knew less than her crew. I think their mission is to retrieve Ben, briefed that they might meet hostile people on the island. and then, plan B, to kill everybody on the island. and, let me get this straight, Ben was going to kill everybody with the Tempest so he wouldn't get caught? the island could be found again... and Charlotte etc. stopped the gas, so at least they didn't want to kill everybody, just get Ben. I think. But we also know that Charlotte, Miles, and Daniel want to get to and stay on the island for their own personal reasons, so being part of Widmore's team was just a means to get there...once there, they probably thought, screw Widmore's plan. unlike Keamy, who has no reason to care about the island or its inhabitants. Did Widmore want just Ben? did Widmore want the Others and everyone else dead? I think that's what we're led to believe so far. but we don't know why.

I wonder, if Charlotte had just asked Locke and co., "hey, just let me take or kill Ben and I'll leave you alone and leave the island, with you if you want to come, without you if you don't", then they'd just hand Ben over and everybody wins. hehe. yeah right...:)

By the way, after seeing future Frank in s. 5, I much prefer Frank with long hair and a goatee.

Dr. Chameleon
01-08-2010, 06:38 PM
Charlotte in Tunisia: guess one of the polar bears turned the donkey wheel


Love it! :D

Nineteen
01-16-2010, 07:53 PM
Like they would really show the corpse of capt "Seth Norris" on the news

Alex 909
09-02-2010, 07:25 PM
We never really got a satisfying answer as to why Daniel was crying at the news of Flight 815 being found. In "The Variable" he said something like, "It's just so sad. All those people are dead." It seems like it was being built up to be something more, but maybe that's just me.

Dan was with his experiments of time and travel and constants. His mind was crazy and that's why he forgot things on the Island like his name and why he acts a little weird. He was crying because somewhere he remembered his plan to blow up the Swan to stop 815 crashing. Obviously this failed and he knows why when watching the TV so he cries at the fact his entire plan failed.

Hopelessly Lost
10-19-2010, 10:04 PM
Yeah, I agree that Daniel crying was emotional over flight still crashing, but not quite remembering everything.
It is cool to now see the Losties more island proficient when the new people come. It shows how everything that's happened on the island has changed the way they behave.
I do think Jack realizes there's more to their mission after seeing the gas masks & Daniel saying rescue isn't their top priority. Jack is going to make sure that no matter what, they take them off the island.
It is interesting how 3 members of the science team are connected to the island too. Like someone said b4, wouldn't Ben know this too w/his "research" on them? Wouldn't he especially know Daniel is Charles & Eloise's son???