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tohdom
10-12-2009, 06:35 AM
Lost Rewatch Episode Discussion for "The Economist"
(Oct 12 - Oct 18)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Economist

MM0602
10-22-2009, 03:28 AM
Awesome! Great pace, and great flashforwards, although I am not a fan of how quickly Sayid keeps getting over Nadia and falling in love :p. But anyways, him being an assassin was super shocking for me. I don't know why, really. I did like the storyline with Elsa though I wish we got confirmation on who the economist was (can't remember if we found out in He's Our You or not, don't think so). Most likely Widmore, I guess. The final scene was such a shocker, too! Actually, I don't think any episode this season didn't have a WTF cliffhanger :p.

What was up with Naomi's bracelet though? Why did Sayid take it? That's kind of... rude, don't you think XD

Dr. Chameleon
10-28-2009, 02:47 AM
Is the economist Widmore? Will we ever find out? It's actually kind of low on my list of questions, which is funny because I have a whole slew of questions related to the far less important Peter Avellino. Bear with me. :p

Avellino freaks out when Sayid says he's one of the O6. Is it because he knows Sayid is targeting Widmore's men, or because Widmore's men are/were investigating the crash?

Sayid is working for Ben only because he wants revenge for Nadia's death, but there's no evidence it wasn't an accident (just a photo of a guy behind the wheel of a car in L.A. who follows Sayid to Iraq). We now know more about the accident thanks to "The Incident". Did Jacob want Nadia to die, or did he just want to keep Sayid alive? Were they both being targeted by the car or was it truly an accident?

Was Illana really hired by Avellino's "family" or by Widmore, who clearly wanted the 06 to return to the island? But then Bram was clearly opposed to Widmore, and Illana is working with Bram and with Jacob. She's either lying or has conflicting allegiences. On the other hand, both Jacob and Widmore likely wanted Sayid to go back to the island, so maybe there isn't a conflict.

Is this less complicated than I'm making it out to be???

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
11-24-2009, 03:42 AM
Another great Sayid episode!! One thing I've noticed for sure in the re-watch is that the episodes only got better as the season went on from the very first episode of TBOTE.

To me, Sayid always shows up Jack in the ideas department. He has already figured out a way to get himself on that helicopter and do it in a way that people won't get killed. While Jack is storming around acting like a crazy man, Sayid has discovered a way to get off the island. That is why Sayid has ALWAYS been one of my favorite characters from day one. He's smart and doesn't have to flaunt it. ;)

I think the reason the golf guy, Avellino, is so upset when he learns Sayid's name is because he knows Sayid has been hired by Ben to kill off these people on Ben's list. We still are not sure if these people worked for Charles or not since Ben may have lied about this too. For all we know they could be enemies Ben has made in his time off the island and he wants Sayid to do some clean up work for him. I think that is why Ben was so excited to see Sayid on TV when Ben landed in Tunisia. The reason I believe that Avellino didn't work for Charles is that Charles would have let these people know who the 06 were as he was keeping tabs on them or at least that is what he told John. I also think that Ilana only used Avellinos name as a way to shame Sayid into supposedly being arrested by her and that this way he would probably not resist being deported.

Who is the Economist and will we ever find out the answer in season 6?? I'm not sure but I do know that whoever he is, Sayid seems to know that he isn't really an Economist and I think that Elsa could have gotten some info from Sayid just before the pager went off. One thing I found extremely interesting is that the Economist didn't want Sayid dead and he wanted her to bring Sayid to the "safe" house. Some of the clues may fit Charles Widmore especially since he would want to keep Sayid alive and get him back to the island but I'm not sure if this is Charles. It may be just another random guy on Ben's list but he seems more important since he wanted to keep Sayid alive. I always thought of Jacob when Sayid spoke of technology and Elsa mentioned that ,"He's very old fashioned, you know how bosses can be."

We get to see the rocket experiment with Daniel and this only gives the viewers more proof that the island isn't part of the real world. The rocket should be there but it is sidetracked from it's normal course and gets "lost" for 31 minutes. This is when Daniel realizes that flying back and forth to this island will require an exact entrance both ways to stay on course.

Well, if there was ever a reveal of the Man Behind the Curtain, we got to see it at Ben's house in the barracks. That hidden room said it all for me. Ben has a secret life that he keeps behind closed doors and he is not who he claims to be. That is why I laughed so much at that scene as Ben escorts Charles off the island and Ben vows he will never be like Charles. Ben's room shows us that he carried on like some sort of secret agent spy with different alias and suits for each occasion. This is why I think that the people that Sayid killed for Ben were somehow related to what we saw in this room and who Ben pretended to be.

One thing that stood out for me is the line Ben says to Sayid in the barracks room. Ben mentions that he didn't think Sayid would have fallen for John's trick with Hurley and Sayid asks him "what do you know about friendship?" Ben replies, "I know it's no use having friends you can't trust." I wonder who Ben is referring to since he seems so friendless especially since we see that his last, best friend was Annie?

The other line that stood out was when John and Sayid talked about making a deal for Sayid to get Charlotte back. John mentions that Ben has a man on the boat and of course, Ben keeps that to himself. Sayid says, "Forgive me but the day I start trusting him is the day I would have sold my soul." Well, Sayid did eventually sell his soul to Ben and killed a lot of people for him for some reason. Ben used him and I think he tricked him into working for him all along.

The scene at the end is so creepy and does give me the feeling of Ben as the devil. We don't hear his voice clearly as they hide it and his identity. At last we see him and he scolds Sayid for being stupid enough to care for Elsa in a loving way. I think Ben never got to have the love of a woman and this is something he never had the chance to experience so to him this is an act of weakness. He then reminds Sayid of his mission and the protection of his friends making sure that Sayid will remain as his hit man until the job is done.

Richard Was Here
11-28-2009, 06:14 PM
I love this episode.

Sayid is my favorite LOST character, and this is one of my favorite Sayid-centric episodes.

I remember the first time I saw this, I was shocked when Sayid pulled that gun out of his golf bag and shot Avellino. It was such a cold-blooded thing to do...especially since we see Sayid fighting against himself and his past so much during the first 3 seasons of the show.

The thing with Elsa....yet another tragic love affair for Sayid. This poor guy can't catch a break when it comes to his women not getting killed off. Now we know this, of course, but at the time this episode aired, we had seen Shannon die, but not anyone else. So I was a bit surprised when Elsa pulled out the gun and shot him....and he ultimately had to kill her. I mean, we knew she was an employee of Sayid's assigned target since the coffee shop scene....but I was a bit surprised when she turned out to be more of a full-scale operative, and not just a personal shopper.

The last scene, where we see why Sayid is doing this stuff, was pretty creepy. And of course we are left at this point wondering why the heck he is working for Ben in the future? What could have happened to have driven him to THIS? Especially given his obvious hatred and distrust of Ben in the present day on the Island.

What a great ending!

zeus22
12-01-2009, 10:28 PM
Couple questions:

1) Are we to assume that Naomi had a picture of Desmond because she was actually working for Charles Widmore? Widmore knew that Penny was looking for Desmond, so he allowed Naomi to use that as a cover story?

2) Also, Ben speaks at the end of the "last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun." I'm guessing by the rest of the conversation that Ben is talking about Nadia's death here, but I guess I don't get how it applies. Any thoughts?

Dr. Chameleon
12-02-2009, 01:10 AM
Couple questions:

1) Are we to assume that Naomi had a picture of Desmond because she was actually working for Charles Widmore? Widmore knew that Penny was looking for Desmond, so he allowed Naomi to use that as a cover story?

2) Also, Ben speaks at the end of the "last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun." I'm guessing by the rest of the conversation that Ben is talking about Nadia's death here, but I guess I don't get how it applies. Any thoughts?

I suppose so on #1, although it seems a little sketchy. On #2 I feel like they didn't think that through very well. I guess you could argue that Ben was chiding Sayid for letting his guard down, but I'm not sure I believe that her death was anything but an accident.

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
12-02-2009, 10:34 PM
I love this episode.

Sayid is my favorite LOST character, and this is one of my favorite Sayid-centric episodes.

I remember the first time I saw this, I was shocked when Sayid pulled that gun out of his golf bag and shot Avellino. It was such a cold-blooded thing to do...especially since we see Sayid fighting against himself and his past so much during the first 3 seasons of the show.

The thing with Elsa....yet another tragic love affair for Sayid. This poor guy can't catch a break when it comes to his women not getting killed off. Now we know this, of course, but at the time this episode aired, we had seen Shannon die, but not anyone else. So I was a bit surprised when Elsa pulled out the gun and shot him....and he ultimately had to kill her. I mean, we knew she was an employee of Sayid's assigned target since the coffee shop scene....but I was a bit surprised when she turned out to be more of a full-scale operative, and not just a personal shopper.

The last scene, where we see why Sayid is doing this stuff, was pretty creepy. And of course we are left at this point wondering why the heck he is working for Ben in the future? What could have happened to have driven him to THIS? Especially given his obvious hatred and distrust of Ben in the present day on the Island.

What a great ending!

I am a big fan of Sayids too and he has been a favorite since season 1. He has always been the lostie with the most sense and logic!

I think that what this episode showed was that deep down, Sayid was this natural born killer and Ben exploited that to the end. This was all after Nadia's death that we were finally shown in season 5 so it didn't make sense at the time this aired. I still believe that Ben used the death of Nadia to his advantage because when he "arrived" in Tunisia, he went after Sayid immediately. Ben needed someone to kill these people for him and Sayid was a perfect choice and now he had the proper motivation from the facts/lies? that Ben told him about Nadia's accident. I still wonder if the accident was just that, an accident and that this man that Ben claims drove the car to kill her was only a con by Ben. He fabricated the story and picture of this man so that Sayid would kill him on the assumption that Widmore wanted Nadia dead.

Jesus_Stick
12-18-2009, 12:43 AM
The only thing I noticed new this time through is the rather cool "316" showing up on the second clock when Dan is checking the payload! Rather cool me thinks!

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
12-18-2009, 05:24 PM
I love this episode. I was pretty lukewarm on it the first time, but it's aged very well. The only thing I hate about it is that yet AGAIN Sayid loses a woman he loves, and what's worse, she was just playing him the whole time.

locke-n-load
01-07-2010, 01:26 AM
I suppose so on #1, although it seems a little sketchy. On #2 I feel like they didn't think that through very well. I guess you could argue that Ben was chiding Sayid for letting his guard down, but I'm not sure I believe that her death was anything but an accident.

Why is this sketchy? we know widmore sent the freighters? So sure naomi is workin for him. right?

Dr. Chameleon
01-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Why is this sketchy? we know widmore sent the freighters? So sure naomi is workin for him. right?

Yes, I'm not disputing that Naomi worked for Widmore, it's the issue of her having a photo of Desmond and pretending that she's working for Penny that I found sketchy. Although on further thought we can reasonably assume now that Widmore *did* in fact know that Desmond was on the island so it seems less sketchy to me now. Earlier I felt that Naomi's appearance in S3 and the early episodes of S4 with the science team were so completely misleading for the audience as to render the characters' behavior nonsensical upon rewatch, when we know what's *really* going on (for the most part). I guess I feel less that way about Naomi now, and possibly some of Daniel's behavior can be attributed to his scrambled mind, but I still don't see any reasonable explanation for Charlotte, especially when she knocks out Kate to go stop the Tempest. "Trust no one" is her credo, perhaps?

sdorian
01-08-2010, 11:17 PM
Ben's hitlist for Sayid, people supposedly working for Widmore:
Ishmael Bakir - Iraq
Peter Avellino - France
Elsa - Germany, her boss the economist (Widmore?)
Ivan Andropov - Russia

Curiously enough, Abaddon is not on the list (unless Sayid shot him while Abaddon and Locke are driving around).
And, from Elsa, we think the Economist is out to kill Sayid. But then we find out Widmore wants all the Oceanic 6 alive to go back to the island to help Locke. (same goal as Ben...) Also, I think it's more Ben's style to kill Nadia to manipulate Sayid. Although we see Ben witness the funeral just as he gets back. But maybe there was a time lapse. Or Ben's accomplices. My money's on Ben killing Nadia.

As for who the Economist might be, Lostpedia's Economist/Theories page pretty much covers anything I could have thought of. I like some of the especially tricky theories that the Economist doesn't really exist or it's Ben...all ploys to manipulate Sayid. If I were to guess, I think maybe it's Widmore.

Why does the family of Avellino want to take Sayid to Guam? Maybe Ilana wasn't hired by Avellino's family and/or the puppetmaster of the whole thing has ties to Eloise to get Sayid on that particular flight. We know now that Ilana has some ancient connection to the island, since she knows about the statue and everything. If it's a Jacob v. Nemesis war, maybe Ilana is on Jacob's side. but there's a whole lot of pieces missing from the puzzle.

Sayid picks up the Des/Penny photo and says that Naomi was looking for Desmond. Haven't we already been through the "not Penny's boat" thing?

I got a solution for the can't kill Ben/still want him to walk thing. Cut off his fingers.

Daniel's payload experiment shows the time/space anomoly just between the freighter and the island, when the boat's practically in the island's orbit (like Hydra moving with the Island, or Jin. (Des's sailboat too, but that was before the hatch explosion)

Are we to assume that the pylons are off? or Sayid, Miles, and Kate climbed over them. and Locke etc. all gets the code from Ben?

Why would Locke want to keep Charlotte hostage? to provoke a war between their group and Jack's group? besides, it would cause them to come looking for them, leading the other freighterfolk to the barracks, thus defeating the point of hiding. It probably would've been more sound to let her go. or kill her.

Sayid mentions he's picking people off a list. We know this now. But it is a hint to Ben/Others, their lists.

Also, why the helicopter? Why didn't they just bring the freighter close to shore?

Dr. Chameleon
01-11-2010, 11:46 PM
I got a solution for the can't kill Ben/still want him to walk thing. Cut off his fingers.

Ouch. Maybe if LOST was on cable.



Are we to assume that the pylons are off? or Sayid, Miles, and Kate climbed over them. and Locke etc. all gets the code from Ben?

There's a deleted scene which shows Sayid, Miles and Kate going through the fence. It's turned off.

AGNK
01-14-2010, 01:24 AM
Of all people, Hurley is probably the WORST at keeping secrets or lying, but when they find him in the closet, he is very convincing. That always bothered me...