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tohdom
10-19-2009, 07:00 AM
Lost Rewatch Episode Discussion for "The Constant"
(Oct 19 - Oct 25)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Constant

dubmdell
10-25-2009, 02:38 AM
This is easily one of my all-time favorite episodes. It is not only playing the rules laid out in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" to their full extent, it is also a great love story (and that love story only works because I can believe Cusick and Walger are genuinely in love and desperately seeking each other. The sincerity in their voices and their tears during the phone call alone made this episode worth the watch). Really doesn't do much to advance the overall mythology, but the best episodes are rarely expository.

Dr. Chameleon
10-28-2009, 05:59 PM
I think I had some trouble with this one the first time around. It makes more sense now that I see that 1996 Desmond is the one moving around in time and is the one we see for most of the episode, until 2004 Des' consciousness returns during the phone call to Penny. For some reason I thought they were switching places with each other. Where does 2004 Desmond's mind go to? Also, because of the way he says he's "not supposed to be here" it's hard not to make a parallel to Locke, even though there's no evidence that Locke has had consciousness time-shifting.

We have another loop here like we did with Locke's compass: this time with the settings Daniel gives to Desmond in 2004, which Desmond then gives to Daniel in 1996.

The first connection between Eloise Hawking and Daniel is made here via the rat. We also see what's going to happen to Charlotte here in miniature.

An even bigger first is that this is the first episode that explicitly connects Widmore to the larger island mythology, via the Black Rock.

MM0602
10-31-2009, 04:23 AM
I might have missed something, but I found this to be kind of weird. When the helicopter lands, Keamy asks Frank who Sayid and Desmond are. Frank says they're survivors of 815. Earlier this season though, he called Juliet out for not being on the manifest, which he claims to have memorized. So why not Desmond too? I may be wrong, but as far as I remember I don't think he knew about Penny or about Desmond. I guess we could also chalk it up to him not wanting Keamy to go nuts if he thought Desmond was a "native."

The cliffhanger is kind of weird :p I like this episode, but definitely overrated, imo. Very touching scenes with Des and Penny. They deserve a happy ending.

New Otherton
10-31-2009, 08:07 PM
I might have missed something, but I found this to be kind of weird. When the helicopter lands, Keamy asks Frank who Sayid and Desmond are. Frank says they're survivors of 815. Earlier this season though, he called Juliet out for not being on the manifest, which he claims to have memorized. So why not Desmond too? I may be wrong, but as far as I remember I don't think he knew about Penny or about Desmond. I guess we could also chalk it up to him not wanting Keamy to go nuts if he thought Desmond was a "native."

The cliffhanger is kind of weird :p I like this episode, but definitely overrated, imo. Very touching scenes with Des and Penny. They deserve a happy ending.

Yeah, he was covering for him so as not to rouse suspicion. I think even by this point in the freighties arrival, Frank has pretty much already decided that he's on the losties side in this thing, rather than the mercs or the others.

MM0602
11-01-2009, 01:35 AM
Another thing I'm wondering...

Daniel says you can't change the future, right? When his rat travels into the future, it's apparently at least an hour ahead. Daniel says that's when he's going to teach her how to run the maze. Now, when Desmond wakes up again in 1996, Daniel says he was out for 75 minutes. He seems awfully busy on his chalkboard and not even paying attention to Eloise... but are we to assume that while Desmond was back in 2004, Daniel in 1996 was teaching the rat how to do the maze? And that she died right afterwards? Because otherwise, how could she have been sent to a point when she had learned to run the maze, if she died before getting to that point in time from Daniel's perspective? And why would Daniel teach her how to run it again, if she already knew how to run it from her time travel experience?

It's confusing because the way I see it, the options here are:

Eloise sees herself running the maze in the future. Eloise runs the maze. Eloise dies without being trained to run the maze. Eloise is not alive in the future to run the maze like she saw herself doing.

Eloise sees herself running the maze in the future. Eloise runs the maze. Daniel teaches her to run the maze, although she already knows how. Eloise dies after the point she time traveled to.

But they both seem to be problematic to me. Obviously the first one wouldn't be right, because she wouldn't be able to see herself in the future if she wasn't alive in the future. But I don't see why Daniel would re-teach her, unless he did it off-screen out of fear of what would happen if he didn't. But maybe I'm missing something that better explains it? :p I dunno, did they talk about this in any podcasts or anything? I guess I kinda answered my own question but any other insights would be nice haha.

DocGiggles
11-01-2009, 08:12 AM
If you have the Season 4 DVDs, watch this episode's commentary. Quite interesting.

New Otherton
11-01-2009, 02:59 PM
Another thing I'm wondering...

Daniel says you can't change the future, right? When his rat travels into the future, it's apparently at least an hour ahead. Daniel says that's when he's going to teach her how to run the maze. Now, when Desmond wakes up again in 1996, Daniel says he was out for 75 minutes. He seems awfully busy on his chalkboard and not even paying attention to Eloise... but are we to assume that while Desmond was back in 2004, Daniel in 1996 was teaching the rat how to do the maze? And that she died right afterwards? Because otherwise, how could she have been sent to a point when she had learned to run the maze, if she died before getting to that point in time from Daniel's perspective? And why would Daniel teach her how to run it again, if she already knew how to run it from her time travel experience?

It's confusing because the way I see it, the options here are:

Eloise sees herself running the maze in the future. Eloise runs the maze. Eloise dies without being trained to run the maze. Eloise is not alive in the future to run the maze like she saw herself doing.

Eloise sees herself running the maze in the future. Eloise runs the maze. Daniel teaches her to run the maze, although she already knows how. Eloise dies after the point she time traveled to.

But they both seem to be problematic to me. Obviously the first one wouldn't be right, because she wouldn't be able to see herself in the future if she wasn't alive in the future. But I don't see why Daniel would re-teach her, unless he did it off-screen out of fear of what would happen if he didn't. But maybe I'm missing something that better explains it? :p I dunno, did they talk about this in any podcasts or anything? I guess I kinda answered my own question but any other insights would be nice haha.

Daniel doesn't re-teach her to run the maze. It goes like this(all times are rough estimates, as they were never explicitly stated in the show):

4 pm - Daniel turns on his time machine and sends Eloises mind one hour into the future (roughly).

4:02 pm - Eloise's mind from 4 pm returns from the future, and runs the maze after being taught how to do so in the future.

4:03 pm - Desmond passes out while his 1996 mind jumps back to the future.

5 pm - Eloises 5pm mind, which already knows how to run the maze BECAUSE of time travel, is replaced by her time travelling consciousness from 4 pm, which DOES NOT know how to run the maze. Daniel teaches her how to run the maze. She returns to her own time at 4:02 pm.

5:10 pm - The effects of consciousness time travel cause eloise to have an aneurysm and die.

5:17 pm - Desmond awakes from his coma upon having his mind return to 1996.

MM0602
11-02-2009, 04:57 AM
Oooh. Got it. That's weird but makes sense :p Where does her 5pm mind go though? Does she just "lose consciousness", but not really because her past mind comes in?

New Otherton
11-02-2009, 05:06 AM
Oooh. Got it. That's weird but makes sense :p Where does her 5pm mind go though? Does she just "lose consciousness", but not really because her past mind comes in?

Desmonds 2004 mind went into a state of unconsciousness during the entire ordeal he went through, so I would imagine the same is true for eloise as well.

Simon
11-02-2009, 03:57 PM
One of my favourite episode endings, but I'm unsure on the rest of it.

I will say this though, i think it's one of the most important episodes in the grand scheme of things. The idea of reuniting things and events in two seperate sort of worlds sounds like it could be very significant in reuinting 316 survivors and the Dharma fakes.

Simon
11-06-2009, 01:07 PM
I think this is one of the most relevant episodes of Lost, ever.

Right now in S5, we have two groups stuck in two different...worlds I guess. Desmond managed to sort of join the two by having a constant. Surely it's the same kind of thing?

New Otherton
11-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Well, it's not too different worlds. It's the same world, just at two different points in time.

Richard Was Here
11-30-2009, 01:13 AM
This is my favorite episode of LOST, most probably. Certainly my favorite of the non-season finale episodes, anyway.

I watched this one twice before I saw season 5 and loved it then. Now after seeing season 5, I love it even more, because it's a prelude to the time traveling of season 5.

Desmond and Penny on the phone...I tear up every time I watch that.

And this is also one of my favorite Daniel Faraday episodes - the episode were I really starting liking his character.

Also, I love how they work in connecting Widmore to the Island via the first mate's journal from the Black Rock....and how Widmore was clearly willing to pay whatever he needed to pay to get his hands on that journal.

Finally, if the theory about Richard having arrived on the Island via the Black Rock is correct, we can then assume that he is in the neighborhood of 200 years old, since the Black Rock left Portsmouth in 1845, presumably with him on it, looking pretty much the same as he does now.

The first time viewing this episode, it is very touching and I loved it because of that. But this episode takes on additional meaning after you watch season 5.

Fabulous!

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
12-02-2009, 06:32 PM
An amazing episode that really shows us why Lost excels in intelligent TV viewing!! Re-watching this episode also needs to have a mandatory re-watch of the commentary since TPTB really delve into the mechanics of "The Constant".

This episode is why I watch Lost. The writers took the "time" to give us quality material and it really shines through here. To me, this was the best explanation so far that the island is not in the same dimension as the rest of the world. Time is the key and Daniel is there to give us a hint. "Your perception about how long your friends have been gone, it's not necessarily how long they've actually been gone." Juliet tells us that it should only take the helicopter about 20 minutes to reach the freighter but on the island Jack says it's been over a day. This all tells me that time moves much faster on the island than it does in the "real" world.

Taking Desmond and showing us that his consciousness traveled between 2 time periods was brilliant, even though they did sort of steal the idea from Star Trek, The Next Generation a bit. But the whole story line was flawless and gave us the reality of a great love story between Desmond and Penny.

I really liked Frank in this episode too. We see that he is trying to help these island survivors and could care less about Keamy and his agenda. Frank is one of the good guys and it makes him one of my new favorites.

I would love to know how these "special" phones work but I'm sure it would be a complicated explanation with a lot of sci-fi mixed in. Since we know now that Charles has been on the island, he must know the technology that needs to be made into these phones to make them work.

There are 3 story lines of conscious time travel and each one is affected differently by the effects. First, there is Eloise, the rats present mind going to the future to learn a maze. Then, of course, there is Desmond who has his past mind traveling to future events. Finally, we are introduced to George whose present mind travels to the past and just can't make a connection so he dies.

TPTB used so many tools to illustrate what was happening to Desmond and this is what made the episode so outstanding. Just the simple idea that what he wrote on his hand in the future would not be there in his past! We also get a hint to Daniel's memory problems and what caused them to occur as he did this experiment over and over radiating his brain. The idea of using this "constant" as Desmond's one, true love was perfect. Even through all of Charles Widmore's attempts to separate them, they still managed to reconnect through this simple act of a phone call.

I still don't look at Charles as being the "bad guy", at least not yet. He is trying to accomplish something on this island that needs to be done and I think it was important for him to remove Ben in the process. The story of the Black Rock has some connection to that and will hopefully be explained this final season. It is an important part of the mythology of Lost. This is why we were shown that auction and that journal that Charles bought. I also believe it was the ship we were shown during the beach scene with Jacob and MIB. Another interesting fact they told us was that the ship was on a trading mission to Siam which is now Thailand where we saw Jack in a flashback. There has to be some significance there.

The whole scene of Desmond arriving in 1996 at Penny's door to the point she answers her phone on Christmas Eve 2004 was just beautiful!! It brought Desmond back from his travels and put him firmly into the future of 2004 where he belonged. :)

MissWartooth
12-12-2009, 02:04 AM
I just re watched the episode and I like how on the boat the Doctor say something about that Daniel cant help him self, so how could he help Desmond. Didn't catch that the first time.

Daniel is one of my favorite characters I'm glad they brought him in after charlie died helps heal the hole in my heart. =P

sdorian
01-09-2010, 04:56 AM
one of my favorite episodes.

Why do the other freighterfolk, or at least George, time travel? Were they exposed to radiation too? The phones must be special to not have a time delay.

I forgot that Penny called the freighter. So Charles doesn't want her to know what he's up to... I also forgot that Hanso (founder of Dharma?) is connected to the Black Rock. wonder if Penny knows about the island from her dad.

Dr. Chameleon
01-12-2010, 12:09 AM
Why do the other freighterfolk, or at least George, time travel? Were they exposed to radiation too? The phones must be special to not have a time delay.

I think it's just that the boat is too close to the magic bubble that separates the island from "the real world."

theory3000
03-22-2010, 03:27 AM
george describes why he was effected. he and a buddy took a raft to try to get to the island because they were bored. The temporal effects killed the other guy in the raft and caused minkowskis condition.

netzerospace
02-19-2011, 04:45 PM
is anyone know where to find the soundtrack for this season of lost ?

Hopelessly Lost
02-28-2011, 01:28 AM
I found all the soundtracks thru Amazon. I purchased season 1 & 4 thru them.

SAWYERLOCKEJACK
02-28-2011, 04:01 AM
I just rewatched the Constant about 15 minutes ago.

I found it a very excellent episode, but a lot of people sing its praises as the best episode and I don't really know why, personally, as I find other episodes a lot stronger.

My main complaint is the lack of on-Island activity, it just divulged more into Desmond and Faraday that didn't really amount to anything except clues on why Faraday's mind was bonkers.

Even the name of the episode and the cliffhanger at the end of the episode provided a lot of foreshadowing, however was never revisited, which kind of made this a good story, but not a good piece to the epic.

pinccadillac
03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
i watched this this morning and was crying my eyes out at des and pen at the end, lol

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David Shephard
10-10-2012, 08:53 PM
This episode, along with "Flashes Before Your Eyes," are two of the best hours of television ever created. Forget the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Juliet thing. Dez and Penny is the REAL love story.