PDA

View Full Version : 4x06 The Other Woman



tohdom
10-19-2009, 07:01 AM
Lost Rewatch Episode Discussion for "The Other Woman"
(Oct 19 - Oct 25)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Other_Woman

Dr. Chameleon
10-28-2009, 06:15 PM
No one? There's kind of a lot here, even if a lot of it is small (I love the little details). First off: why do the Others need a therapist??? :rolleyes: And it's odd the way Harper seems to hate Juliet from the get-go, is it possible she has some foreknowledge of what's to come? It's a little weird that we never actually see Harper and Goodwin interact, and why he didn't just break up with her if the relationship had been on the rocks for a year (awkward when you're stuck on an island together? Others have a no-divorce policy?).

I go crazy trying to parse out the lies and levels of knowledge all the boat people have. Dan and Charlotte clearly know from the outset that they need to go disable the Tempest, so apparently Widmore (via Abaddon) had made this a priority and instructed them to do so. Dan also knows about Keamy's "second protocol," so he knew all along that the entire island inhabitants were in danger of being slaughtered two different ways. Why did he not warn anyone? He certainly seems like a nice guy and he tries to help everyone get off, but there's soooooo much lying, so unecessary, seemingly to pump up the drama. Juliet does the same thing, there's no reason here for her not to tell Jack what's going on.

Harper appears and disappears out of thin air, with whispers (and a creepy, Ethan-esque demeanor). It seems like Juliet would know how this works, but she acts confused here. I've asked this elsewhere, but how was Ben communicating from his cell at the barracks?

While we finally get the story (most of it, anyway, we still don't know who Juliet looks "just like") behind Juliet and Ben's tortured relationship, we still don't know when Juliet recieved her combat training or was indoctrinated into the faith of Jacob. The fact that she was working with kidnapped kids Zach and Emma puts her in a weird place, motivationally speaking.

Does the Tempest exist because Dharma was planning to commit genocide against the Others? Or did the Others convert it for this purpose?

There are some inconsistencies in the whole island pregnancy issue. Here we are told that the mother's immune system turns on the fetus. Why would this cause the mothers to die, though, and what about the 26-year-old-uterus-that-looks-like-a-70-year-old-uterus image that Alpert showed Juliet in "Not In Portland"?

Ben lies about not knowing anything about Widmore. I'm curious why he would have a (presumably) fake dossier about Widmore ready for Locke to look at. Unless there really IS a magic box. :p

Hurley's awesome luck on display again, this time with horseshoes.

And my big conspiracy theory question is: did Ben somehow cause the pregnancy problem for the sole purpose of creating a reason to bring Juliet to the island? If so (and if it's mainly because she looks like someone), how did he find out about Juliet to begin with, what kind of search did he undertake to pick her out?

imbeanie
10-29-2009, 04:15 PM
Hey Doc-- you wrote "parse"--kudos for that! Anyway, to reply to a couple points.... In one of the deleted scenes, Ben jokes about "flushing away" secrets when John lets him use the restroom in one of the barracks; who knows? Also, in regard to why/how Juliet got to the island, I always wondered if Edmund Burke, who seemed to be more interested in the financial gains of Juliet's research, was somehow working with Widmore (after all, Widmore Industries makes pregnancy tests...) and indirectly, this is how Ben found out about Juliet.

Dr. Chameleon
10-29-2009, 06:26 PM
Also, in regard to why/how Juliet got to the island, I always wondered if Edmund Burke, who seemed to be more interested in the financial gains of Juliet's research, was somehow working with Widmore (after all, Widmore Industries makes pregnancy tests...) and indirectly, this is how Ben found out about Juliet.

This isn't too much of a stretch, but in my crazy conspiracy theory Ben went after Juliet only because of the way he looked, then trumped up the pregnancy problems to match her professional skills and give himself (or Alpert, or Jacob) justification for bringing her to the island. If this was true (and based on my past theories, it isn't), then how did he find her based on her looks? Maybe he's got some kind of a Professor X Cerebro machine.

Nathan182
11-05-2009, 06:16 PM
Harper confuses me in this one, I'm pretty sure Ben didn't send "her" but then that leads me to speculate as to why "she" was there. (I am quoting her and she because I am pretty sure it was the smoke monster and not an actual person). It could have been Smokey fulfilling its role as protector of the island...

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
11-05-2009, 06:31 PM
It definitely wasn't Harper-Harper. It was definitely either Smokey or X (no I don't think they're one and the same). Yeah, I get that Harper kinda seemed to hate Juliet from the start. She was probably just jealous because everyone was all over Juliet because she was "big news right now" and because she was hot.

I love the flashbacks in this episode, though I think they could've revealed a little bit more about Juliet other than 1) she had an affair with her therapist's husband 2) Ben was obsessed with her.

Juliet definitely didn't seem to be aware what the whispers were, but who knows with that chick?

Simon
11-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Ben steals the show here when he makes that dinner for Juliet, and talks about Goodwin and Ana Lucia. I love that scene :D

MM0602
11-07-2009, 03:00 AM
Ben's hilarious when Juliet comes over for the dinner XD His creepy little smile and how excited he is.

Charlotte is so randomly badass in this episode. And bitchy too I guess. I'm still confused as to whether Ben actually wanted the gas to be let out or not. I also don't think that was really Harper for some reason, and Ben doesn't seem to be too concerned about gas when we do see him in the episode... so I dunno. And how did Charlotte and Daniel know the gas had been activated? Too many unanswered questions! The flashbacks were alright but definitely my least favourite Juliet episode.

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
11-07-2009, 06:01 AM
Charlotte is so randomly badass in this episode. And bitchy too I guess.

She's a total bad ass in this episode! First she knocks out Kate and then she ALMOST wins a fight against Juliet. I mean come on, Juliet could take every woman and most men on that island, so for Charlotte to take Jules the way she did speaks volumes. And Faraday is hilarious when he's like "That....that was a close one."

Simon
11-07-2009, 04:16 PM
One thing that put me off the fight scene was the full one-second look at Juliet's body double. I don't know how that made it in.

Black_Rock
11-30-2009, 02:10 AM
Harper appears and disappears out of thin air, with whispers (and a creepy, Ethan-esque demeanor). It seems like Juliet would know how this works, but she acts confused here. I've asked this elsewhere, but how was Ben communicating from his cell at the barracks?


I am completely convinced of 2 things. First, this was not really Harper. Second, the real Harper is certainly dead. Smokey makes a real habit out of impersonating dead people to manipluate the living. The only exception I can think of is Older Taller Walt, if in fact it was Smokey getting Locke out of the hole. The whole thing where Harper referenced Ben to Juliet was likely a lie. If I am right, there is likely some reason that Juliet is not aware Harper is dead.



While we finally get the story (most of it, anyway, we still don't know who Juliet looks "just like")


Its just gotta be Annie, doesn't it?



And my big conspiracy theory question is: did Ben somehow cause the pregnancy problem for the sole purpose of creating a reason to bring Juliet to the island?

My guess is this is a direct result of detonating a nuclear device that close to the electro-magnetic anomoly. As far as finding Juliet, it seems Ben/Richard have very far reaching eyes and ears. Finding the pre-eminant fertilization doctor (and research) would seem relatively easy with the types of resources they seem to have that their fingertips.

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
11-30-2009, 02:25 AM
Its just gotta be Annie, doesn't it?

I used to think so, but now I think it's Emily Linus. She looks more like Juliet than I imagine Annie would.

Richard Was Here
11-30-2009, 04:43 AM
Observations from this episode:

1. Harper is about the worst therapist who ever lived.

2. Ben's fixation on Juliet is WAY creepy. That whole "Because you're MINE!" speech over Goodwin's body was twisted.

3. At this point in the show, Locke cannot stand for ANYONE to challenge him in any way. Not even little innocuous Claire, with regard to her request to talk to Miles. Locke can really be a jerk. But then, season 4 is where I really started disliking his character immensely anyway.

4. Ben is awesome. He plays Locke like a violin...it's positively brilliant.

B: "Your people are going to be SOOOO angry when they realize that you still don't have a plan"

L: "And I assume you HAVE a plan."

B: "I always have a plan".

Brilliant!!!!! Ben must think dealing with Locke is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Dr. Chameleon
12-01-2009, 12:09 AM
I used to think so, but now I think it's Emily Linus. She looks more like Juliet than I imagine Annie would.

Certainly MY first assumption was Annie, but then we've seen Annie even less than we've seen Emily, and there is a definite resemblance between Juliet and Emily. Throw into the mix that Emerson's wife was playing Emily and you get a possible in-joke that Ben is attracted to his mother... I don't think we can assume we know for sure in any event.

Black_Rock
12-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Certainly MY first assumption was Annie, but then we've seen Annie even less than we've seen Emily, and there is a definite resemblance between Juliet and Emily. Throw into the mix that Emerson's wife was playing Emily and you get a possible in-joke that Ben is attracted to his mother... I don't think we can assume we know for sure in any event.

The counter to this argument, is that Harper has never met Emily. There is one known picture of her in young Ben's room. I find it a stretch to think this old photo is enough for Harper to have made that comment.

Simon
12-01-2009, 04:07 PM
Speaking of which, where there no photos of Juliet and the Losties from 1977 hanging around the barracks? I guess they scrapped them when they learned of their true identity (or when the Purge happened). Would be funny to see Juliet come across a photo of herself from 1977 in 2001 :p

Dr. Chameleon
12-02-2009, 01:06 AM
The counter to this argument, is that Harper has never met Emily. There is one known picture of her in young Ben's room. I find it a stretch to think this old photo is enough for Harper to have made that comment.

That makes sense, unless Ben talked about it a lot, but that seems unlikely considering the significant personal weakness he'd be revealing. In that case Annie does seem like the logical guess. Bring on the Annie story! How are they going to cram all this into 18 episodes???

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
12-02-2009, 07:31 PM
In this episode we really get to see the lengths that Ben will go to for a chance at having love with a woman he desires. Juliet is brought to the island at his request and she either looks just like his mother, Emily or his long lost friend Annie. I got the feeling that Harpers dislike for Juliet was due to the fact that Ben "wanted" everyone to accept his new mate and that the Others had no choice in the matter. Whatever Ben tells them, they do it. So we hear how Juliet feels special but Harper assures her that she isn't. Harper hates her because she probably hates that Ben doesn't want her instead.

One little detail that really bothered me was the fact that Jack, Juliet, Sun and Jin with Vincent went to find Daniel and Charlotte but TPTB only used Sun and Jin for air time in the episode. They had no role except for helping to look for them and then we never heard another word about them after Jack and Juliet's confrontation with Harper. I always hate when they use characters and then drop them with no explanation.

I think this was really Harper in the jungle. She has some sort of abilities that enable her to do this and to contact Ben being held by John. On her desk was a certificate mentioning Hanso Foundation and I bet she was one of the chosen who had special abilities in parapsychology. She probably joined with Ben before the Purge and now helps him control these people that he brings to the island. Ben wants to get rid of these freighter people who are coming for him and he needs to do something drastic to stop them. I believe he was behind the idea of having Juliet go and kill them. This may have been one last chance to get Juliet to come back to Ben and leave the losties behind. That way he could prove to himself once and for all that Juliet/Emily/Annie still loves him.

The Tempest had the abilities to release a poisonous gas into places on the island. Goodwin explains that he could kill every man, woman and child on the island if he flipped the wrong switch. I think that this is what Ben used during the Purge. We even hear a sort of confirmation from Charlotte to Juliet as she asks Juliet if she is so sure that Ben wouldn't use this to gas everyone on the island since he has used it before. I just think that Charles had enough information about the Tempest to let his team know that they needed to disable it so that Ben couldn't use it against them. That is why they came to the island prepared with gas masks. I kind of think that TPTB also hinted they were the "good guys" since Daniel and Charlotte were wearing white suits.

I was curious about the map that we saw Charlotte and Dan looking at. There were at least 3 areas on it that said "unknown" and I would think that Charles would have some idea about what was on the island if he knew about the Tempest at least. That just seemed sort of strange since we know that Charles had been on the island for many years as an Other.

I thought that Claire actually helped give John the idea to use a peaceful resolution after he went a little crazy with Miles and the hand grenade. She even suggests that maybe these people that first came from the freighter aren't all that bad and maybe they just need to find out whose boat it really belongs to. Then with this new found confidence from Claire, John uses it to one-up Ben by handing him the dollar bill and this makes Ben have to go to plan B. He tells John he knows who the boat belongs to and has evidence. I think this evidence is all from Bens point of view and so we really don't know if what he is showing us and telling us is the truth or another lie. This may be just another con of Bens that John has fallen for and so in the end he believes Ben and releases him from his prison cell.

I thought it was funny that Ben had to actually trick Juliet into coming to his house for dinner and then proceeds to get her to like him by telling little lies about Goodwin and Ana Lucia. One thing we do know is that if these Jacob lists are for real and not something Ben has made up, then Cindy was never on the list from the beginning and we still don't know why she was taken later on. I also believe that Ben made sure that Goodwin wouldn't be coming back until Ben found out that the losties had killed him. Ben knew that Ana Lucia was smart and it was only a matter of time before she would find out who Goodwin was and possibly end up killing him. This was Ben's revenge on Juliet for loving Goodwin instead of himself. The scene where he takes her to Goodwin's body was just plain creepy. This again confirms for me that Ben is not playing with a full deck and that he has some very psychotic tendencies. Especially when he goes from screaming, "that you're mine" to calmly telling her to "take as much time as you need" as he walks away. WOW....brilliantly played by Michael Emerson.

Then we see at the end that John has fallen once again for one of Ben's schemes and released him as Sawyer and Hurley look on in shock as Ben happily smiles and says, "see you guys at dinner".

Jesus_Stick
12-18-2009, 02:13 PM
Could it be that Juliet looks like Juliet?


In 1977, which we saw in season 5, we see Juliet extensively operating on Ben after he gets shot by Sayid. If someone helps to potentially save your life would you not be a little obsessed by them too?

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
12-18-2009, 05:18 PM
Could it be that Juliet looks like Juliet?


In 1977, which we saw in season 5, we see Juliet extensively operating on Ben after he gets shot by Sayid. If someone helps to potentially save your life would you not be a little obsessed by them too?

Yeah, but remember what Richard said about healing Ben at the Temple? He wouldn't remember anything about it.

Dr. Chameleon
12-18-2009, 07:34 PM
Yeah, but remember what Richard said about healing Ben at the Temple? He wouldn't remember anything about it.

Ah yes, the C3PO gambit.

locke-n-load
01-07-2010, 06:59 PM
And my big conspiracy theory question is: did Ben somehow cause the pregnancy problem for the sole purpose of creating a reason to bring Juliet to the island? If so (and if it's mainly because she looks like someone), how did he find out about Juliet to begin with, what kind of search did he undertake to pick her out?

i agree still some huge "unaswered's" about the pregnancy issues. This is obviously a post-incident occurence since it's not happening in '77. Now if there really is the metaphorical 'magic box' did ben bring this problem as a reason to need juliet on the island? He wanted juliet bc of her resemblance to 'her'. Is something yet revealed in '77 to adorn young ben's admiration and obsession for juliet in the past? Maybe sacrificing herself in the incident gained her some cult god status amongst the others? Who knows. Also wanted to mention the first appearance in the timeline of the pregnancy issues was obviuously ben's birth offisland, somehow this all comes back to ben being the cause. And likely the young girl's old uterus (weirdest thing ive ever written) is ben's mom, the first case (although in portland) and likely starting point of any research.

locke-n-load
01-07-2010, 07:09 PM
I used to think so, but now I think it's Emily Linus. She looks more like Juliet than I imagine Annie would.


Yeah, but remember what Richard said about healing Ben at the Temple? He wouldn't remember anything about it.

See my above explanation of the obsession with juliet and tell me what you think. I think juliet looks just like juliet.

sdorian
01-09-2010, 05:39 AM
I liked the opening, tricky. :) It could be on island, off island, past, present, or future.

You can see from the beginning that Ben plans for her to stay. What bugs me is that Richard sees the fertility issue as a "novelty". Obviously it's crucial for the Others, a life or death matter. And, they need to be able to reproduce to continue their group, if they can't always bring people in from the mainland or kidnapped from other people stranded there. My guess is that from Richard's (and Locke's) perspective (but not Ben's), the fertility thing is not as important in the overarching grand scheme of things, in that - like Dharma - they should be trying to directly study or connect with the Island. Perhaps the Others, and Ben, feel they don't need to do this because they assume they already are connected to the island. Unlike Locke, who knows he's on a spiritual-type quest.

Which leads me to another question. Rose and Locke were both healed, but took very different approaches. I think Rose, off-island, answered my question, in that she accepts things how they are. She accepted her cancer, her fate. She accepts that she's healed. So I guess her faith, or whatever, is strong enough that she's not compelled to question why the island healed her or how it works. Conversely, I suppose you could say Locke goes on a quest precisely because he isn't 100% faithful/confident/accepting. Maybe, like Jack in a way, John needs proof, answers. Even though Locke goes all wacko with blowing up the sub, knifing Naomi (the only person he's killed I believe), and sticking a grenade in Miles' mouth, I think I like him so much because he seems to be the only character curious to really learn about the island and try to connect with it. Eko does this somewhat.

sdorian
01-09-2010, 07:04 AM
When Harper comes to Juliet in the jungle, I thought it was a ghost vision at first. (Ben had one. I wonder if Others get them - or mostly just Losties. or if there's a significance to who gets ghost visions.)

Looks like Jack doesn't consider the freighterfolk friends. guess that Charlie/Hurley/Locke doubt has really set in...

"Ben is exactly where he wants to be." Telling. ok, so Ben's about to kill everybody - including himself and the Others? - with the gas and he wants Juliet to go to the Tempest, wants her to believe the freighterfolk are going to turn it on and she's to turn it off. just manipulating her to kill them. but Ben/the Others got the Tempest to turn on somehow. and Dan and Charlotte were sent in to fix it. yet Keamy's out to kill everybody...clashes a bit.

Claire makes a very excellent point to Locke. "You killed one, Ben shot one, now we're holding them prisoner...I might be less intimidating..don't you want to know who's boat it is?"

The Ben/Locke conversations are always brilliant. What Ben says (about leadership and insurrection) will only (if Locke buys into it which, by his dish throwing frenzy, Ben knows he does) undermine Locke's confidence, make Locke suspicious of people, and maybe push Locke to be a more dictatorial leader; thus creating a stage for mutiny. Locke pretends it doesn't bother him. Then Ben, with a slightly raised, slightly panicked voice, rushes in with some hook, and Locke, because he's so desperately curious about the island, just can't ignore Ben. If it were me...I don't know. I think I'd shoot Ben, for starters. Have Claire question Miles. see what Hurley/Claire/Sawyer suggest. At one point Locke was more egalitarian (Jack's not here, whoever wants to go to the Pearl can come) but now he's caught between pursuing his own quest - which he did try to go off and do alone - and help other Losties survive the new threat of the freighterfolk.

And so Ben mixes truth with lies. Widmore's trying to find the island. That's the only true thing we know. Maybe Widmore's benevolent, maybe he's dying of cancer and needs the island to cure it. Maybe he's beating up someone who was trying to hurt Penny. We don't know. However Penny's at odds with her dad and they don't communicate to each other (his freighter not accepting her calls; her rescue boat hidden from him), and the less-than-happy interactions Des has had with him, puts Widmore in a negative light. However, he was on-island before Ben. Maybe he wants to overthrow Ben and take his place as leader of the Others again. Or maybe he just wants to find the island to get to Ben. So if Ben's back on the mainland, Widmore would stop searching for the island...

I think Harper's reference to Juliet ("you look just like her") is not Annie from Ben's childhood. must be a blonde adult woman Ben probably had a thing for several years ago.

sdorian
01-09-2010, 07:13 AM
there's soooooo much lying, so unecessary, seemingly to pump up the drama. Juliet does the same thing, there's no reason here for her not to tell Jack what's going on.
First off, I agree with you about the confusion, the lying, what freighter people know what... but maybe to answer the above...I think we're supposed to assume Juliet's trying to distance herself from Jack, not clue Jack in, because she doesn't want Ben to kill him.

wanderer72
01-22-2010, 10:05 PM
I think it's highly significant that Jack also sees Harper in the jungle. That part of the scene was so strange, Jack just kind of shrugs off finding Juliet and a random other that he doesn't recognize having a conversation in the jungle, who then proceeds to disappear.

Dr. Chameleon
01-22-2010, 10:26 PM
First off, I agree with you about the confusion, the lying, what freighter people know what... but maybe to answer the above...I think we're supposed to assume Juliet's trying to distance herself from Jack, not clue Jack in, because she doesn't want Ben to kill him.

Good observation.

wanderer72
01-23-2010, 02:41 AM
I think this is a very underrated episode.

JulietDetonatesMyHeart
01-23-2010, 05:03 AM
I think this is a very underrated episode.

Yes! I love it. I think it gets a lot of flak because it followed "The Constant" but I don't think it's any better or worse than all the other episodes in S4 (excluding the forementioned episode and TSOTTC and the finale of course).

pinccadillac
03-21-2011, 01:04 AM
bens thing for juliet was funny to watch, hes such a little conniving weasel

i love ben manipulating locke