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tohdom
11-03-2009, 06:07 AM
Lost Rewatch Episode Discussion for "Cabin Fever"
(Nov 2- Nov 8)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cabin_Fever

Dr. Chameleon
11-06-2009, 07:12 PM
So Ben and Locke both have mothers named Emily and both were born three months premature. Is there any greater significance to this other than adding to poor Richard's confusion about which one is *the* chosen one? We now know Richard visits little John because big John told him to.

Horace says he's been dead for 12 years. That puts the purge at 1992 -- how did Danielle survive the gas? Horace says if John finds him, he'll find Jacob. But we pretty much know that Jacob isn't in the cabin, so is Horace lying? Is it the monster/nemesis? It seems likely that the dreams John and Eko have are a form of communication from the Man in Black, not "the island" as they tend to assume. I'm curious if Widmore's nightmares are related to these dream messages. Ben's little aside "I used to have dreams" suggests he's recieved similar messages.

Horace's nose is bleeding and he seems to be in a time loop, which is nice foreshadowing for S5.

There's a lot of symbolism in Richard's visit to John. Lil' Locke is playing backgammon (although the pieces are red and white, not black and white), Alpert pauses to look at what looks like a drawing of the smoke monster and asks Locke about both it and the game ("You like backgammon? Yeah? You seem to have a pretty good sense of the game." "Did you draw that, John?"). Eko told Locke a story about Josiah and the Book of Laws in S2. Does the knife mean anything specific? Obviously adult Locke has a thing for knives, and Jacob will ultimately be stabbed with one. I know this is a stretch, but is it possible adult Locke's consciousness somehow travelled back to childhood Locke's body a la Desmond? It would explain the drawing and the "this wasn't supposed to happen" business, but since Locke seems to only have a half-assed sense of what's going on most of the time, it would seem like this consciousness is buried away...I'm not sure how that would work based on what we know at this point.

Ben says the purge wasn't his idea, he wasn't leader at the time. Was it Widmore's?

I was pretty stunned when Locke said that Hurley is special! He doesn't usually acknowledge anyone else's importance.

Alpert doesn't come to John when he's in high school, but he still tries to recruit him to a Mittelos "summer camp." Why still interested at this point?

Mwah ha ha haaaa:
BEN: He actually thinks staying was his idea. Not bad, John. Not bad at all.
LOCKE: I'm not you.
BEN: You're certainly not.

I imagine this will have even more resonance by the series end:
BEN: The cabin--what if it's moved again?
LOCKE: It hasn't moved because I was told that this is where it would be.
BEN: I was told a lot of things, too--that I was chosen, that I was special. Ended up with a tumor on my spine and my daughter's blood all over my hands.
LOCKE: I'm sorry those things happened to you, Ben.
BEN: Those things had to happen to me. That was my destiny. But you'll understand soon enough that there are consequences to being chosen... because, destiny, John, is a fickle bitch.

And this even moreso:
ABADDON: Is that what you are, Mr. Locke? I went on my walkabout convinced I was one thing, but I came back another. I found out what I was made of, who I was.
I would assume that Abaddon is working for Widmore at this time, so this is pretty interesting. Jacob just saved Locke's life, and here now is someone working for Widmore giving John the idea to go on the walkabout in Australia. So was Widmore already aware of MiB plot to take over Locke's body? Assuming that is what we saw in season five...I look forward to the point at which they let the audience know who John is.

I have to assume at this point they knew what they were going to do with John, there seems to be a lot of foreshadowing. I love it when Christian asks Locke why he thinks he's there: Locke says (guesses?) "because I was chosen" and Christian smiles and says "that's absolutely right." Chosen because he's easily manipulated? Good stuff.

Simon
11-09-2009, 02:24 PM
I imagine Richard tried to recruit John again, because Jack told Alpert in the 70's: "I wouldn't give up on John Locke".

Then again, do the dates match up? He'd be about 17 in high school, so that doesn't place the time frame in 1977.

Dr. Chameleon
11-10-2009, 01:03 AM
I imagine Richard tried to recruit John again, because Jack told Alpert in the 70's: "I wouldn't give up on John Locke".

Then again, do the dates match up? He'd be about 17 in high school, so that doesn't place the time frame in 1977.

Yeah, interesting idea, but he would be past high school in 1977 (unless he got held back 3-4 years, which would be a hilarious addition to the sad tale of John Locke ;) ).

jpventoso
11-10-2009, 04:13 AM
Chosen because he's easily manipulated? Good stuff.

Well, if you think about the episode 3x03 (Further Instructions), Eddie says to Locke that he would be "amenable for coercion" :)

Dr. Chameleon
11-10-2009, 03:33 PM
Well, if you think about the episode 3x03 (Further Instructions), Eddie says to Locke that he would be "amenable for coercion" :)

Exactly. As if they hadn't taken great pains to make it obvious with his relationship to Cooper. What would be cool is if Locke was somehow complicit in his "possession" or whatever happened when the MiB seemingly took his form and memories. Because he's not just a patsy, he's often a very willing participant in whatever happens to him -- it just usually doesn't turn out very well for him. :(

MM0602
11-28-2009, 07:02 AM
Claire, what are you doin in there? I can't wait to find out :D

Richard Was Here
12-10-2009, 02:48 AM
Mwah ha ha haaaa:
BEN: He actually thinks staying was his idea. Not bad, John. Not bad at all.
LOCKE: I'm not you.
BEN: You're certainly not.

This was one of the best moments in this entire episode. And you could see by the look on Locke's face that Ben got to him - AGAIN!

Hil-arious!!!!!

I LOVE it when Ben slides another one in on Locke. To Ben, pissing off Locke is like shooting fish in a barrel. Which only goes to prove the truth of the above statement. :D

Okay...now I was really excited to watch this episode again for the first time since my initial viewing of it as I have only since decided that Richard Is The Man. First time through this one, I was mostly paying attention to Locke, but this time I watched Richard alot more closely...and paid greater attention to the items Richard used in the Dalai Lama test.

Interesting set of objects. Of course, we get the bottle of sand and the compass...and I suppose Richard stuck the comic book and baseball glove in there as a test, since most boys that age are interested on those things.

That is NOT the knife that Jacob was killed with...so I don't understand the significance of the knife either....but we still have a whole season of this show during which Richard is going to be a regular and so we still have ample time to discover any added significance - particularly for the knife.

One thing I don't really fully get though. When Mini-Locke missed on the knife, Richard bolted out of there like a bat out of hell. I wonder if Mini-Locke's answer made him wonder if Locke was not 'The One' at all? Or if he just thought Mini-Locke was simply not ready yet to be carted off to 'Oregon'.

Because obviously, later on Richard decides that John is special in some way...that much is made obvious in this episode and There's No Place Like Home. I mean, that "Welcome Home, John" scene really says it all.

Yet, IIRC, the real Dalai Lama test is a determination as to whether the young boy being tested is The One. It is not a test of readiness - it is a test of identity.

So I am a wee bit confused about the purpose of this test in LOST.

Finally....Richard at the hospital staring though the glass at infant Locke....that was sort of a bit...disturbing. I mean, I know Locke told him to be there and all...but you'd think Mrs Locke (John's grandmother) would have told Richard to buzz off or something - she seemed like the kind of woman who spoke her mind.

Anyway, this episode was really interesting to watch a second time around.

Jacob'sWiseOldMother
12-11-2009, 07:28 PM
The nurse in the baby John scene said it all. "He is a fighter your little John." This is exactly why John was suppose to be on the island because he never gives up when things go wrong. This is also why Richard and then finally Abbadon tried to get John on the island. I don't think that it was only his soul mission to be used by the MIB but that we haven't seen his true ending mission as yet. We have been told over and over that John always believes he is a hunter but Richard Alpert finally proved that he is not the hunter. John was suppose to chose the Book of Laws but even as a young boy he wanted to be the hunter by choosing the knife. The things that should belong to John are what the test is about. He is suppose to be choosing items that belonged to him in another life...reincarnation. So when young John chooses the knife, Richard knows he made a mistake by trying to be someone he really isn't.

There are many comparisons between John and Ben. Their mothers are named Emily, they were both premature babies,they both were unloved in their lives, they both had horrible fathers and they both ended up on the island selected to be the "chosen one". But there is one huge difference when John says, "I'm not you." and as Ben said to John, "You're certainly not!!" Ben is a true con man who only does things to accomplish his goals for his own well being. John, on the other hand, really cares about the welfare of other people. We saw him pushed out a window to his death after he confronts his father in the killing of an innocent man. John has a good soul and still at this point of the show, I'm not really sure that Ben does.

The scene of Horace reminded me of Hell. Horace even has his bloody nose just as he did when he died during the Purge from the gas. In Hell, events are repeated over and over as a sort of punishment. John receives the information but I'm not sure this came from Jacob. It helps him find the cabin but who is inside? It's the form of Christian who tells him he "speaks" for Jacob but does he really?? I can't see this "Christian" as being good simply because he took Claire away from Aaron and then turned her into this sort of creepy Claire. They wanted John to move the island and leave for good but it sort of back fired when Ben took control and left instead. So, if "Christian" really represents the MIB, maybe he wanted to keep Ben on the island for some other reason.

The freighter scenes were interesting and added to the time line for Doc Ray's death. On island time tells us that on day 1, Keamy kills Alex and the beach group receives the message/S.O.S. that Ray is fine. Day 2 is when Sawyer takes his group to the beach and meet Frank in the jungle. Frank flies Keamy and group back again. Day 3 is when Sawyer wakes to find Claire is gone and John and group find the map to the cabin. On the freighter, Frank flies Keamy back to the island after he kills Ray.

But on the freighter it is Day 1 and the helicopter arrives back on the freighter with the injured man. Day 2 is when the guy dies and Omar receives the S.O.S. message from Daniel on the beach. Later that night, Ray is killed. The differences are definitely there and tell us time is moving at different speeds between the 2 locations. So, I think there has been 3 days on the island since Ray washed ashore but only one day on the boat when Ray is killed and dumped into the ocean.

Overall, it is just an amazing episode with lots of things going on.:)

zeus22
12-27-2009, 05:51 PM
I wonder if we'll ever find out what the miracle was that happened to Abaddon.

I think the test that Richard gave to little John is still pretty unclear at this point. Are we supposed to believe that he selected the sand, the compass, AND the knife or just the knife? I was thinking that Richard wanted John to select the compass in order to see if John would remember giving it to Richard in 1954. This event had already happened chronologically, but hadn't happened to John yet. If John only picked the knife, then I guess this scenario might make sense. Thoughts?

sdorian
01-10-2010, 09:16 AM
They haven't done a "previously on lost" for awhile...

just because you break something doesn't mean you can fix it...

why would Michael confess to Keamy, does he have a death wish? oh wait. :)

Horace is building Jacob's cabin, and he's the leader of Dharma. So I bet he's important. Dharma knows about Jacob, not just the Others. Also, this is an out-of-place (and time) vision for Locke because it's someone he doesn't know (like Christian) and from the past, but not his past (well, sort of). Plus the vision's repetitive like time skips or something. Horace says he's been dead 12 years (purge 1992)..but I assume he's building Jacob's cabin in '92. yet another DI place reconstituted by Others? Horace...godspeed...

The scene with Richard - thanks to Dr. Chameleon I think - I guess is supposed to be like finding the reincarnation of the Dalai Llama. I don't know if this means that Locke was always special (I think so) or just foreshadow. What bugged me, even on first watch, was that I think Locke was correct and yet Richard dismisses him. But perhaps Richard - guided by adult Locke - isn't as all-powerful and insightful as we're led to believe and Richard doesn't know young John's correct. I guess Locke was supposed to pick the compass. (but, chicken and egg thing, is it Locke's compass or Richard's or...) but we know the knife's likely his.

Back on the freighter: man, Keamy's got a gruff evil-sounding voice. And odd that the secondary protocol has a Dharma logo, even though Ben and the Others and Widmore aren't DI. Is this more evidence that Others and DI are the same? also, why have Daniel and Charlotte shut off the Tempest to have Keamy torch the island?

all this "don't trust the captain" and he seems like a decent guy

Coryct
07-02-2010, 04:30 PM
After re-watch, I am thinking that the cabin really belongs to MIB.

John goes in the Cabin and there are Christian and Claire.
MIB has appeared as Christian before, and Claire is with MIB/John in S6.
So perhaps they have been manipulated by MIB and not Jacob all along.

duat
11-15-2010, 04:58 AM
This episode should be considered as one of the most important of the series, certainly mythologically speaking.

Not only do we get a critical flashback on Locke's life pre-island, but the symbolism of Ben and Hurley outside Jacob's Cabin sharing the Apollo Bar can't be emphasised more greatly. A brilliant piece of foreshadowing, two seasons prior to the series finale.

ZeroPoint
01-25-2011, 03:20 PM
After a re-watch, I have a much better appreciation of this episode. I caught myself watching John's mother, Emily, being rushed to the hospital and wondering if we would catch a glimpse of his dad. Duh!, just a few episodes ago we saw the whole end-game with Sawyer and Anthony Cooper! Funny how I didn't connect the dots with this scene and who his dad was. The flashbacks can keep you guessing.....

I enjoyed the subtlety of Horace telling John his name. "My name is Horace......Godspeed John!" ;)

Between rewatching, I played the season 4 extras disc and when I saw this episode again, I was surprised that they cut that 1 second scene when Keamy cuts Doc Ray's throat. The extras disc contain several shots of the event and I could have sworn that was in the final footage but no, the camera switches views at the last second. I wonder why? :confused:

Also, I can see that this Christian is different than the other "ghosts". I always thought it was the island or Jacob but based upon the motives with Claire he appears to be the MiB.

The secondary protocol that Keamy pulls out of the safe has the Orchid logo on the front cover. I'm guessing that Widmore had a copy from when he was on the island and it's just a map/schematic of the facility. Was Widmore "banished" from the island in a similar way that Ben was transported at the end of season 4? Obviously he has this document and knows about the facility so......

One thing about this episode that I never understood was why did Ben have to use the mirror to send a signal to the Orchid station? I thought for sure that there was some type of guard(s) up there but we see nothing of the sort once they arrive. Not to mention the Keamy & crew (along with Jack & Sawyer) march right up there with no interference. Maybe Ben wasn't signaling the Orchid but was sending a signal to some other place to tell someone of his plans???