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Dharma Ranch Dressing
02-09-2010, 06:17 PM
This thread is for discussion of the February 9th episode: "What Kate Does".

Please see the 6x02 In-show Analysis & Chat thread for general "excitement" comments made during the airing.

For more information on this episode, please visit the Lostpedia Wiki page dedicated to this episode.

Please do not post ANY spoilers in this thread without marking them with the spoiler tags.
This includes any information from Promos - Ads - Trailers that are shown after the episode or at any other time.

For more information on what we consider a spoiler here, please see Lostpedia Forum Spoiler Policy. (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=41229)

Thanks and enjoy!

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:02 AM
Overall, I have to say I thought this episode was rather mediocre. However, the final four or so minutes was awesome; so glad to finally see Claire on-island again.

You Lost Me
02-10-2010, 03:03 AM
Yea, not a lot happened..though there were a few major things... Evil Claire!! So that's where she went

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 03:04 AM
When they showed the trap and said it wasnt rousseau's I thought we would be seeing Claire. Nothing too exciting outside of the last fiveish minutes thought

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:04 AM
One important thing I noticed, which was subtle enough that it many may have missed it, is that Kate seemed to have the same type of 'deja vu' like experience in the ALT timeline that Jack did in LA X. Previously it seemed like perhaps only Jack seemed to realize something was strange' in the ALT timeline, given the way he looked at people in LA X. It seemed like he had some memories of the island, or some awareness that he'd known the other passengers in another life. In this episode, Kate seemed to have the same feeling when she saw Jack while she was in the cab at the airport then again when Claire said that her baby's name was Aaron.

sluhser589
02-10-2010, 03:05 AM
This basically solidifies that Christian has been the MIB the whole time. He's the one that encouraged Locke to go die and he's the one that lured in Claire. My only question then is, how did Walt apparate?

Hugo Rocks
02-10-2010, 03:05 AM
Overall, I have to say I thought this episode was rather mediocre. However, the final four or so minutes was awesome; so glad to finally see Claire on-island again.

My sentiments exactly. Kind of dull the whole thing but Claire on the island was cool. I'm guessing it means she has moved to the dark side w/Flocke. She was hanging out w/him when he was taking the form of Christian.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:06 AM
Ok, let me get this in early...

Notice Dogan didn't care if Kate or Jin left.

So far we know James, Jack and who else definitely need to be protected? I don't think Kate or Jin are one of the selected. But those two are definitely important to the end of this story.

So who else?

lostaddict12
02-10-2010, 03:06 AM
Well I thought it was a pretty good episode. Which is interesting considering I usually don't like Kate centrics, but the alt timeline is different -- I really enjoyed the stuff with Claire.


And Sawyer on the dock = saddest. scene. ever. of anything. :(

Yoseppi12
02-10-2010, 03:06 AM
That was insane but what is up with her facial expressions towards Jin?

Thats where she was? Where was she? lol

Jack is he dying? whatttt

I agree though the episode wasn't that great next week is what I want to see but overall it was awesome how it finally brought claire back!

jessiiicax14
02-10-2010, 03:07 AM
Overall, I have to say I thought this episode was rather mediocre. However, the final four or so minutes was awesome; so glad to finally see Claire on-island again.

i agree wasnt one of the best episodes kinda disapointed.

CTS
02-10-2010, 03:08 AM
Yeah not the best episode, but still awesome :D

Evil Claire at the end was so epic.....:D

PirateGuy 815
02-10-2010, 03:08 AM
The episode was good, reminds me of A Season 4-ish episode. The last 10 minutes were incredible, and the promo for next week looks amazing!! Thank God I have a long weekend, it'll make Tuesday come faster!!

And Claire is bad now? I was wrong about her being in the Temple, but Kaye she was in the Temple, and was forced to leave? I was glad we saw her again, and I really can't wait to find out what the he'll happened.

deathwish
02-10-2010, 03:08 AM
Soooooo

Claire and Sayid have the sickness, whatever that is (time to talk about that for the next week). Claire is Rousseau #2.

Ethan left the Island before it sank into the sea and now works in a hospital.

Kate was kind of a bitch.

Aldo was kind of an asshole.

Sayid saying "WHYYYY" was kind of sad.

No Richard, Flocke, Ben, or Jacob = :\

myfourletterlie
02-10-2010, 03:09 AM
What the hell's up with Claire?

WhateverHappened
02-10-2010, 03:09 AM
Yeah, I agree that the episode could've been better but hell Ethan, Claire and Aldo are all back... Well Aldo isn't anymore lol.

I personally thought it was alright, it had a few good scenes. The Sayid scene wasn't as intense as I thought it'd be but the Dock scene was epic and the guy at the Car Garage made me lol.

Hugo Rocks
02-10-2010, 03:10 AM
Alright, so if we MIB is/was Flocke & Christian when he appeared in the cabin. It leaves me wondering who it was that Locke heard say, "Help me" in the cabin that time. Any thoughts on that?

I feel like there were echoes of Rousseau throughout this episode. When Sayid was electrocuted it made me think of the way she did that to him way back in the beginning. Then Justin mentioned her & the traps. The infection talk. I was almost expecting to see her in ALT. Because, her team never would have crashed on the island if there were no numbers right?

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:10 AM
So if Claire was all Rousseau, and Claire was infected, was Rousseau infected and we just didn't know it? And can the infection spread, or can only Smokey infect you?

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:10 AM
"No, I am not a zombie."

Flyin' High
02-10-2010, 03:10 AM
Ok, let me get this in early...

Notice Dogan didn't care if Kate or Jin left.

So far we know James, Jack and who else definitely need to be protected? I don't think Kate or Jin are one of the selected. But those two are definitely important to the end of this story.

So who else?

No, Kate assured Dogen she could bring Sawyer back. Remember how she said she could be very persuasive? I think Dogen trusted Kate because he doesn't know anything about her. And Jin went to help Kate. I think Dogen totally expected them to come back.

At least that was my take on the scene.

DriveshaftRoadie
02-10-2010, 03:12 AM
That was insane but what is up with her facial expressions towards Jin?

Thats where she was? Where was she? lol

Jack is he dying? whatttt

I agree though the episode wasn't that great next week is what I want to see but overall it was awesome how it finally brought claire back!

It looked like she recognizes Jin, but in a very confused way.

Jack's not dying, he was just out of breath because Dogen beat him up.

So I think it's safe to assume that Claire has the same "sickness" as Rosseau. Which makes sense, they both had their child taken from them when the child was very young. But is this "sickness" really a bad thing? Rosseau wasn't a bad guy; confused, yes, but not bad. Perhaps this infection is just some state that the Others don't like?

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:12 AM
This basically solidifies that Christian has been the MIB the whole time. He's the one that encouraged Locke to go die and he's the one that lured in Claire. My only question then is, how did Walt apparate?

How did this episode solidify that? I'm still not convinced that Christian and the MIB are one and the same; I think it's obvious that MIB = Smokey = Flocke = the Fake Yemi = the Fake Alex.. but I'm not convinced that he is Christian, too.

The fact that Christian's body went missing and, more importantly, the fact that Jack saw Christian at the hospital after escaping the island suggests that Christian may be his own entity. As far as we know, the MIB can't leave the island so he couldn't have appeared to Jack off-island.

We also know that there are other 'dead' people who appear independently of MIB; I don't think the dead people that Hurley communicates with are the MIB and they definitely appear to be more than just figments of his imagination. We also know that Miles can communicate with the dead...

Additionally, I'm not so sure Claire is 'evil.' We'll have to wait and see...

igge
02-10-2010, 03:12 AM
Dogen said the same thing that is happening to Sayid happened to Jack's sister.

jessiiicax14
02-10-2010, 03:13 AM
So if Claire was all Rousseau, and Claire was infected, was Rousseau infected and we just didn't know it? ?

agreed that i think rousseau was infected. it would make sence to the hints throughout the episode

Hugo Rocks
02-10-2010, 03:15 AM
Additionally, I'm not so sure Claire is 'evil.' We'll have to wait and see...

Yes, this is a good point. Evil is relative on the island anyway it seems. Sometimes it is okay to kill people without reason. Other times, not so much. She may be aligned w/MIB but may not be evil.

quimmy
02-10-2010, 03:15 AM
Dogen said the same thing that is happening to Sayid happened to Jack's sister.

I think they are talking about the "sickness", like when the french team came to the island and all went crazy. she looks like roussea right?

sluhser589
02-10-2010, 03:15 AM
How did this episode solidify that? I'm still not convinced that Christian and the MIB are one and the same; I think it's obvious that MIB = Smokey = Flocke = the Fake Yemi = the Fake Alex.. but I'm not convinced that he is Christian, too.

The fact that Christian's body went missing and, more importantly, the fact that Jack saw Christian at the hospital after escaping the island suggests that Christian may be his own entity. As far as we know, the MIB can't leave the island so he couldn't have appeared to Jack off-island.

We also know that there are other 'dead' people who appear independently of MIB; I don't think the dead people that Hurley communicates with are the MIB and they definitely appear to be more than just figments of his imagination. We also know that Miles can communicate with the dead...

Additionally, I'm not so sure Claire is 'evil.' We'll have to wait and see...

Because Claire got infected when she went with him....unless Jack has another sister we don't know about.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:16 AM
No, Kate assured Dogen she could bring Sawyer back. Remember how she said she could be very persuasive? I think Dogen trusted Kate because he doesn't know anything about her. And Jin went to help Kate. I think Dogen totally expected them to come back.

At least that was my take on the scene. But I don't think he cares if they come back or die in their attempt. There's no way he would have let Jack go and help; is what I think. And I'm wondering who else is elevated to that level. I'm sure there's 6 of them. ;)

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:16 AM
No one has any comments about Kate seemingly having 'deja vu' in the ALT?

blueray
02-10-2010, 03:16 AM
yeah it seems to be the sickness.

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
What exactly do we think they are referring to with the title? Claire?

igge
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
That sickness was 'MiB' as well. Rousseau's team got "sick" when they went down under the temple to save Montand, who was dragged down there by none other than MiB.

DeBarlo
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
"Quarantine" is starting to make a little more sense. :D

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
But I don't think he cares if they come back or die in their attempt. There's no way he would have let Jack go and help; is what I think. And I'm wondering who else is elevated to that level. I'm sure there's 6 of them. ;)

No, I think that Kate is one of the people they want to protect. I'd bet money that the people on Jacob's list to Dogen are those same individuals that Jacob touched in the flashbacks in The Incident. Really, it seems pretty obvious that these are the 'chosen ones' that Jacob identified as being special.

Juliett
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
And Claire looked like Rousseau at the very end... with wild hair and a gun.

But what does that mean??


Alright, so if we MIB is/was Flocke & Christian when he appeared in the cabin. It leaves me wondering who it was that Locke heard say, "Help me" in the cabin that time. Any thoughts on that?

I feel like there were echoes of Rousseau throughout this episode. When Sayid was electrocuted it made me think of the way she did that to him way back in the beginning. Then Justin mentioned her & the traps. The infection talk. I was almost expecting to see her in ALT. Because, her team never would have crashed on the island if there were no numbers right?

DriveshaftRoadie
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
The fact that Christian's body went missing and, more importantly, the fact that Jack saw Christian at the hospital after escaping the island suggests that Christian may be his own entity. As far as we know, the MIB can't leave the island so he couldn't have appeared to Jack off-island.


It would it make sense that Christian = MiB, because the instructions that he gives Locke in season 4 and 5 are what lead to Locke's death and MiB's revenge. Plus, when Sun and Frank arrive at Dharmaville in Season 5, we hear the smoke monster sound just before Christian appears.

And we don't know that MiB can't leave the Island. We just know that he can't "go home"; who knows where/what that is.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:17 AM
Another observation I want to port over hear from the in-show thread...

Interesting Supernatural episode once. War [the god, or demi-god?] was causing two groups of people to see the others as demons and they were trying to kill each other. None of them were anyone but who they actually were... except for War.

There's some parallels here. What if noone is actually ever infected. But the impression of them are swayed to make others think they are?

..ugh, if that's the premise of this whole show! I recall the enhanced season 5 finale stated a 3rd quote from Jacob's weaving was something like "only the dead know an end to war".

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 03:18 AM
So are we now to assume Claire did die in the house explosion and they healed her, but she also was over taken by a darkness?

Nineteen
02-10-2010, 03:18 AM
Nice "Empire" reference ... "they didn't even ask me any questions"

sluhser589
02-10-2010, 03:19 AM
No one has any comments about Kate seemingly having 'deja vu' in the ALT?

It's pretty obvious that they're all going to experience this deja vu. I'm just curious as to how strong its going to become and if they actually start recognizing each other.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:20 AM
Nice "Empire" reference ... "they didn't even ask me any questions" That's where I know that from. Thank You!

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:20 AM
It would it make sense that Christian = MiB, because the instructions that he gives Locke in season 4 and 5 are what lead to Locke's death and MiB's revenge. Plus, when Sun and Frank arrive at Dharmaville in Season 5, we hear the smoke monster sound just before Christian appears.

And we don't know that MiB can't leave the Island. We just know that he can't "go home"; who knows where/what that is.

I'm not denying that the show has definitely strongly suggested that MIB = Christian, I'm just saying I'm not fully convinced yet. There just seems to be something more to the whole Christian thing... I get the feeling that it's a little more complicated when it comes to his character.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:21 AM
I also want to say, in a separate post of course, that my post whoring is coming along smashingly. I should be in Room 23 before this show is over. That's all I want to achieve. :D

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 03:22 AM
I always thought:

suit Christian = apparitian
dirty clothes Christian = MIB

brendons
02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
wow i really have an increased level of respect for josh holloway :p that dock scene was really good

i can't help but think back to the "there's a war coming" comment that widmore made

might be between all the "infected people" [claire, sayid, christian, locke] and the normal others/losties, but that would be a bit too cliché

also makes you wonder about which side widmore would be on when he told locke "he needed to be on the right side" [iunno if he knew locke was gonna die]

these new temple others make the original others from previous seasons look mediocre xD like, i don't understand how these guys know what's going on while ben doesn't, and he was the leader. maybe they're like hippies :D

anywho i liked this episode
not every episode has to be superclimactic

the claire-back-on-the-island thing is cool :p but if smokey wants to "go home", i wonder if claire will ever have the chance to meet aaron again


and where the HELL is sun i've been waiting for an asian reunion for almost 2 seasons.

bigdave3230
02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
Everyone was bashing me about this a week ago. I think it became very clear tonight that fate is fate and that they can't change their future. Overall, really bad episode.

Bewilderbeest
02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
I've been wondering if this whole light/dark conflict is going to play out as a kind of living game of chess. Jacob and MiB have been picking teams and maybe eventually it will be clear that each character has an opposite. The first obvious pairing I can think of is Rousseau is light, Clare is dark. Also, Hurley is light, Miles is dark? They both talk to the dead.

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
I always thought:

suit Christian = apparitian
dirty clothes Christian = MIB

ooh. I like the idea of that...

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
It's pretty obvious that they're all going to experience this deja vu. I'm just curious as to how strong its going to become and if they actually start recognizing each other.

I thought they all would, but the only character who obviously did in all of LA X was Jack... Until tonight I thought that there was a possibility that Jack, in particular, was special and he alone would have an awareness of the two realities. Now it's apparent that all our Losties (or maybe just those 'touched' by Jacob...?) will have some awareness...

brendons
02-10-2010, 03:24 AM
I always thought:

suit Christian = apparitian
dirty clothes Christian = MIB

interesting idea except, by being "claimed" i doubt your body can belong to both sides :rolleyes:

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 03:25 AM
Maybe that's why "quarantine" was on the inside of the hatch door. It was important to keep Desmond out of the "field of battle" so he could keep pushing that button. He was saving the world afterall.

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:28 AM
When did Sayid get infected? From the dirty water in the pool?

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 03:28 AM
Only Dogen and Lennon seem to have any power or authority. The rest are just foot soldiers in the service of those two. I wonder if Richard was one of them? Or if he was also brought to them and they worked on him.

The other similarity I see to the cult is the poison pill. In a sense, they wanted Sayid "to drink the Kool-aid."

Bewilderbeest
02-10-2010, 03:29 AM
I'm also thinking that the Others are just really self-righteous. Maybe the MiB's team isn't literally "evil," but Jacob has got all the Others convinced that they are so they will do what he wants.

exaxlxpx12
02-10-2010, 03:30 AM
i wonder how Sayid got infected? getting shot? or in the pool? which the others did......so i am curious as to why they are freaking out if they did it...

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:30 AM
BTW, I'd like to point-out to all the 'shipers'... while Kate may still be torn between Jack and James, James is not. His heart belongs to Juliette and I don't think we will see that change.

myfourletterlie
02-10-2010, 03:31 AM
Sawyer's never cried before has he?

kirk76
02-10-2010, 03:32 AM
Poison's poison, it should work no matter if the guys swallows it himself or if you force it down his throat. Obviously there's more to this. I think it has something to do with "The Rules". Just like MiB needed a loophole to kill Jacob, maybe Jacob and his followers need a loophole to kill- or even hurt- Smokie. Maybe he can only hurt or kill himself, and he has to do it willingly.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 03:32 AM
BTW, I'd like to point-out to all the 'shipers'... while Kate may still be tory between Jack and James, James is not. His heart belongs to Juliette and I don't think we will see that change.

Sawyer will end up a part of the bad/claimed/infected side.

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:32 AM
BTW, I'd like to point-out to all the 'shipers'... while Kate may still be tory between Jack and James, James is not. His heart belongs to Juliette and I don't think we will see that change.

Agreed. Poor Sawyer!

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 03:32 AM
I'm also thinking that the Others are just really self-righteous. Maybe the MiB's team isn't literally "evil," but Jacob has got all the Others convinced that they are so they will do what he wants.
I'm more convinced than ever that the Others is the Island Cult. It's also creepy that Lennon looks like David Koresh.

swhunter
02-10-2010, 03:33 AM
This basically solidifies that Christian has been the MIB the whole time. He's the one that encouraged Locke to go die and he's the one that lured in Claire. My only question then is, how did Walt apparate?

I don't think that "Christian is the MIB" was solidified at all. What was solidified was that Claire, like Christian, must've died (probably in the explosion at Dharmaville) and has now been "claimed." But I think the "claimed" persons are maybe servants or henchmen for MIB, but not MIB himself. Notice that Locke's body did NOT reanimate. Locke is dead. But Sayid, Christian, and Claire died and yet their bodies reanimated.

So, I think Smokey/MIB is in the form of Locke and that the "claimed" somehow work for him, but they aren't one-in-the-same.

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:33 AM
yeah the others came off as awful this episode. it makes me doubt jacob's integrity, which sucks because i love jacob.

Dharma Ranch Dressing
02-10-2010, 03:34 AM
I think the implication was that Dogan couldn't convince Sayid to take it, only Jack could.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 03:35 AM
Did anyone catch when Aldo and was it Jamison?, the two others escorting Jin and Kate, found the boobytrap that they said Rousseau had been dead for years. Are they just referring to the 3 years since the freighter or longer? Or was it just something to elude to Claire being the new Rousseau?

kayekaye1234
02-10-2010, 03:35 AM
Sawyer will end up a part of the bad/claimed/infected side.

Oh he will be crying and Kate will put her arms around him and it will start all over again! :mad:

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:36 AM
I think the implication was that Dogan couldn't convince Sayid to take it, only Jack could.

that was kind of awful of them--what if jack really did give sayid the pill? and sayid died? jack would have been so upset.

i'm really not getting the logic of these others.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 03:38 AM
Oh he will be crying and Kate will put her arms around him and it will start all over again! :mad:

I believe when this "war" begins between good and bad or light and dark, whichever you want to call it.. Sawyer will somehow be apart of the darker side. He's an a point now where he doesn't care about anything...

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:38 AM
I don't think that "Christian is the MIB" was solidified at all. What was solidified was that Claire, like Christian, must've died (probably in the explosion at Dharmaville) and has now been "claimed." But I think the "claimed" persons are maybe servants or henchmen for MIB, but not MIB himself. Notice that Locke's body did NOT reanimate. Locke is dead. But Sayid, Christian, and Claire died and yet their bodies reanimated.

So, I think Smokey/MIB is in the form of Locke and that the "claimed" somehow work for him, but they aren't one-in-the-same.

But do we know that to be "claimed" means you have to die? Christian was WAAAY dead, but Sayid was not quite dead ("I'm getting better!"). And Claire wasn't dead at all, was she? Assuming she survived the bombing, and was led away by Christian. So did Smokey kill her, then infect her?

erock
02-10-2010, 03:38 AM
Did anyone catch when Aldo and was it Jamison?, the two others escorting Jin and Kate, found the boobytrap that they said Rousseau had been dead for years. Are they just referring to the 3 years since the freighter or longer? Or was it just something to elude to Claire being the new Rousseau?

I was wondering the same thing ??????

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:38 AM
I only caught Miles's line on replay "as you can see, Hugo here, has assumed the leadership position... so that's pretty great". tptb have him taking over for Sayer in the Lines department... hahahahaha :D

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:40 AM
I only caught Miles's line on replay "as you can see, Hugo here, has assumed the leadership position... so that's pretty great". tptb have him taking over for Sayer in the Lines department... hahahahaha :D

i'm really fond of miles too. we seem to be a minority!

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 03:40 AM
that was kind of awful of them--what if jack really did give sayid the pill? and sayid died? jack would have been so upset.

i'm really not getting the logic of these others.

There is no logic to them. Look at what they're doing. They're defending a temple which apparently can be accessed through the water by pouring a line of ash around it. Their weapons and technology are decidely neolithic. If their adversary is a being with "magical" powers (and wasn't it Asimov who said what appears to be magic to a lower culture is science to an advanced one), how do they respond? What' their version of using magical powers: Jabbing the possessed with a hot poker. I think it's time to call these this goupr what it seems to me what it is: a superstitious cult.

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:41 AM
I'll join the Miles love train. "That douche is my dad" is a classic line!

austincarnivore
02-10-2010, 03:42 AM
I think that the term infected shouldn't be taken literally. Sayid has been a bad boy. I think Sayid was infected long before he came to the Temple. I don't remember him asking for redemption for any of his previous transgressions. Same thing for Ben, Sawyer, and Claire. They did what they had to do and never looked back. They embraced the "darkness" as part of their being. Sure they are likable but they did some terrible things that they never asked for forgiveness.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 03:42 AM
I'm not denying that the show has definitely strongly suggested that MIB = Christian, I'm just saying I'm not fully convinced yet. There just seems to be something more to the whole Christian thing... I get the feeling that it's a little more complicated when it comes to his character.

And your off-island validation for christian not being mib is epic fail. Just before he appears to jack....THE SMOKE ALARM IS GOIN OFF. That was enough confirmation for me. Christian = MIB

DriveshaftRoadie
02-10-2010, 03:43 AM
Poison's poison, it should work no matter if the guys swallows it himself or if you force it down his throat. Obviously there's more to this. I think it has something to do with "The Rules". Just like MiB needed a loophole to kill Jacob, maybe Jacob and his followers need a loophole to kill- or even hurt- Smokie. Maybe he can only hurt or kill himself, and he has to do it willingly.

I think it's alluding to how Ben would never kill anyone directly (until Keamy), he would just manipulate others into killing for him. Dogen was trying to manipulate Jack into offing Sayid, so he could claim he wasn't the one who did it.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 03:43 AM
Did anyone catch when Aldo and was it Jamison?, the two others escorting Jin and Kate, found the boobytrap that they said Rousseau had been dead for years. Are they just referring to the 3 years since the freighter or longer? Or was it just something to elude to Claire being the new Rousseau?

It's been three years since Rousseau was killed (towards the end of Season 4) which counts as 'years.' Saying that the traps were new, of course, foreshadowed Claire's appearance.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 03:43 AM
Poison's poison, it should work no matter if the guys swallows it himself or if you force it down his throat. Obviously there's more to this. I think it has something to do with "The Rules". Just like MiB needed a loophole to kill Jacob, maybe Jacob and his followers need a loophole to kill- or even hurt- Smokie. Maybe he can only hurt or kill himself, and he has to do it willingly.

I think it's also tied to when Jacob told Ben that he had a choice. Free will.

Hugo Rocks
02-10-2010, 03:44 AM
I believe when this "war" begins between good and bad or light and dark, whichever you want to call it.. Sawyer will somehow be apart of the darker side. He's an a point now where he doesn't care about anything...

Perhaps... this makes me think of "The Lost Supper" promo picture. In it, Claire & Sayid are on the same side (along w/Kate, Sawyer, Ilana, & Richard). Maybe Flocke will kill/infect Richard now too? They will all align in a battle against the other side (Jin, Ben, Sun, Hugo, Jack, & Miles)?

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:45 AM
yeah the others came off as awful this episode. it makes me doubt jacob's integrity, which sucks because i love jacob. they've been killing people left and right for 5 entire seasons before this.... you're only seeing this now?!

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 03:46 AM
Maybe that's why "quarantine" was on the inside of the hatch door. It was important to keep Desmond out of the "field of battle" so he could keep pushing that button. He was saving the world afterall.
Thanks for joing us

Flyin' High
02-10-2010, 03:46 AM
Someone posted this in another thread but I thought I'd mention it here, apparently Claire's ultrasound was dated: 10/22/2004.

That means the flight in the flash-sideways was exactly one month after the original 815! :eek:

Can anyone confirm this?

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:46 AM
I think it's time to call these this goupr what it seems to me what it is: a superstitious cult.

this certainly seems to be the case. but i think the thing we have to keep in mind is that we shouldn't judge jacob by them. yes, i'm going to stick by jacob.

swhunter
02-10-2010, 03:47 AM
But do we know that to be "claimed" means you have to die? Christian was WAAAY dead, but Sayid was not quite dead ("I'm getting better!"). And Claire wasn't dead at all, was she? Assuming she survived the bombing, and was led away by Christian. So did Smokey kill her, then infect her?

No, we don't know definitively that to be "claimed" means you first had to die, but it seems to be that way. I think we all assumed that Claire didn't die in the blast, but maybe she did. Why else would she just walk off and leave Aaron? As for Sayid, he was clearly did. Dogan checked him, and Jack tried to resuscitate him -- beating on his chest, like he did with Charlie. So, we don't know for certain, but the clues seem to hint in that direction.

Bewilderbeest
02-10-2010, 03:47 AM
Poison's poison, it should work no matter if the guys swallows it himself or if you force it down his throat. Obviously there's more to this. I think it has something to do with "The Rules". Just like MiB needed a loophole to kill Jacob, maybe Jacob and his followers need a loophole to kill- or even hurt- Smokie. Maybe he can only hurt or kill himself, and he has to do it willingly.

My guess is that once a person has been submerged in that spring, they can't be killed unless they do it themselves.

kayekaye1234
02-10-2010, 03:47 AM
I think it's also tied to when Jacob told Ben that he had a choice. Free will.

Free will isn't free will if you don't the whole truth to decide with. In that case you are just being manipulated into believing you have free will.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 03:48 AM
Perhaps... this makes me think of "The Lost Supper" promo picture. In it, Claire & Sayid are on the same side (along w/Kate, Sawyer, Ilana, & Richard). Maybe Flocke will kill/infect Richard now too? They will all align in a battle against the other side (Jin, Ben, Sun, Hugo, Jack, & Miles)?

Oh brilliant. i love it, great theories.

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 03:49 AM
Someone posted this in another thread but I thought I'd mention it here, apparently Claire's ultrasound was dated: 10/22/2004.

That means the flight in the flash-sideways was exactly one month after the original 815! :eek:

Can anyone confirm this?

I can confirm thats what it was dated.

skimster
02-10-2010, 03:49 AM
they've been killing people left and right for 5 entire seasons before this.... you're only seeing this now?!

hahahaha, i guess i had come to understand their point of view--the ones in the barracks, anyway. these guys seem even worse! at least mr. friendly was willing to play a little football. these guys are trigger-happy all over the place.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 03:50 AM
Free will isn't free will if you don't the whole truth to decide with. In that case you are just being manipulated into believing you have free will.

People make decisions all the time without knowing the whole truth, doesn't mean it isn't free will.

Bewilderbeest
02-10-2010, 03:52 AM
Christian was WAAAY dead, but Sayid was not quite dead ("I'm getting better!").

hahahahahahaha! Yes. I've been thinking about that all week.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 03:52 AM
Someone posted this in another thread but I thought I'd mention it here, apparently Claire's ultrasound was dated: 10/22/2004.

That means the flight in the flash-sideways was exactly one month after the original 815! :eek:

Can anyone confirm this?

you're absolutely right d:10/22/2004, although is that the date or due date?

Ironylover
02-10-2010, 03:53 AM
Ultrasounds would be dated by the date it was taken. [/lady who has had a baby]

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 03:54 AM
this certainly seems to be the case. but i think the thing we have to keep in mind is that we shouldn't judge jacob by them. yes, i'm going to stick by jacob.

I agree, But I'm having a hard time figuring out who is good and who is bad, or maybe just less bad? From what I have seen of Jacob, he is better than MIB/Flocke, regardless of Temple/Other people's actions.

kayekaye1234
02-10-2010, 03:54 AM
People make decisions all the time without knowing the whole truth, doesn't mean it isn't free will.

But in this case it is stated as "free will" to their face. It's manipulation on the island.

m8o
02-10-2010, 03:55 AM
Dogan seemed to think Sayind was "infected" after the ash / powers he blew over Sayid. May not. In any case, does anyone who's a great poker player with great perception know what the tell is that Sayid's more than he's cracked-up to be?

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 03:56 AM
But in this case it is stated as "free will" to their face. It's manipulation on the island.

I guess I am of the opinion, that in life and on the island, we are almost always being manipulated be someone/something at any given time. It is our free will that determines our actions.

MM0602
02-10-2010, 03:56 AM
I love Miles too ;)

This episode wasn't the best for me either, but I still enjoyed it.

The island story was really interesting. What are they going to do about Sayid? Clearly Jack is not going to let them poison him, and I have a feeling they can't just shoot him or they wouldn't have bothered with the pill in the first place. I really hope Kate isn't trying to get with Sawyer anymore. I can't tell if she's just being a concerned friend, or if she's trying to sex him. Well, at least, before the dock scene. I think and hope that's when she's finally let go of Sawyer. He was in love with Juliet, still is, I'm sure he's not going to go back to Kate now. And I LOVE that Claire is the new Rousseau. So cool.

Flash story was cute but some stuff bothered me. How did Kate know where to find Claire? Why didn't Claire run when she saw Kate came back? Why did the car mechanic guy so easily help a handcuffed, gun wielding, screaming woman? But it was nice to see that even after getting to LA, Claire's still destined to keep Aaron. And it was cool to see Ethan. How did he get there? Was he on the island? So many questions... they better start answering them soon!

I'm hoping this will be the worst of season 6, cuz even though it wasn't all that great, it wasn't as terrible as everyone is saying it is. So if this is as bad as it gets I'll be really happy :)

Edit: What what what?? 10/22/04!?

kayekaye1234
02-10-2010, 03:57 AM
I think it was a great episode! Sayid is ?alive, infected, Claire too. Deja vu is all over the place. I love it, going to re watch!

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 03:59 AM
I love Miles too ;)

This episode wasn't the best for me either, but I still enjoyed it.

The island story was really interesting. What are they going to do about Sayid? Clearly Jack is not going to let them poison him, and I have a feeling they can't just shoot him or they wouldn't have bothered with the pill in the first place. I really hope Kate isn't trying to get with Sawyer anymore. I can't tell if she's just being a concerned friend, or if she's trying to sex him. Well, at least, before the dock scene. I think and hope that's when she's finally let go of Sawyer. He was in love with Juliet, still is, I'm sure he's not going to go back to Kate now. And I LOVE that Claire is the new Rousseau. So cool.

Flash story was cute but some stuff bothered me. How did Kate know where to find Claire? Why didn't Claire run when she saw Kate came back? Why did the car mechanic guy so easily help a handcuffed, gun wielding, screaming woman? But it was nice to see that even after getting to LA, Claire's still destined to keep Aaron. And it was cool to see Ethan. How did he get there? Was he on the island? So many questions... they better start answering them soon!

I'm hoping this will be the worst of season 6, cuz even though it wasn't all that great, it wasn't as terrible as everyone is saying it is. So if this is as bad as it gets I'll be really happy :)

Sayid will be on the bad side. Check out the LOST Supper pic. Ethan, as a baby, was evacuated from the island in this AR.

DriveshaftRoadie
02-10-2010, 03:59 AM
you're absolutely right d:10/22/2004, although is that the date or due date?

There's no reason they'd print the due date instead of the actual date. In fact, they probably wouldn't even know what her due date was.

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 04:00 AM
What MM02 said. I thought there was a lot about this show to like. I esp. loved Sawyer pwning the templefolk.
Dogen: "You have to stay inside!"
Sawyer: "No, I don't."

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:02 AM
There's no reason they'd print the due date instead of the actual date. In fact, they probably wouldn't even know what her due date was.

Ethan: Claire, what was the date of your last period?

Claire: <<answer>>

Ethan: Great, your due date is....

or

Ethan: Your baby is <<insert length here>>. So that means he's <<insert gestational age here>>. Therefore, your due date is...

or

Claire: My due date is <<insert due date here>>

You definitely have never been to the OBGYN for an ultrasound.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:02 AM
Jack showed excellent judgement not giving the pill to Sayid, even if Sayid becomes evil, Sayid is Jack's friend, and Jack saved him.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 04:02 AM
so what did lennon lie about to jack?
post you're thoughts hear

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:06 AM
Everyone, if you don't like what someone says, you go to their profile page, then put them on your ignore list from there.... it's a very small pulldown and sometimes hard to notice. ;)

Now can we please get back to answering my unanswered questions?! :p Just kidding.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:06 AM
I have already seen a lot of people assuming MIB is the cause of the infection.

Where is your proof for this?

I am not convinced this is the case, how exactly did MIB get to Sayid? Jacob was the one who wanted him brought to the temple.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:06 AM
i'm really fond of miles too. we seem to be a minority!

I like Miles, but I think he is rather underdeveloped as a character. Hell, Faraday and Charlotte were more developed, even though they have both been dead for awhile and were introduced at the same time. I think that a lot of characters that have been introduced since, say, Season 4 have been a little underdeveloped largely because there is just so much going on now that it's hard to flesh them out while giving the older characters enough screen time. It's unfortunate... A real good example of this is Ilana; she's actually part of the main cast this season and we've barely seen her.

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 04:06 AM
Ethan: Claire, what was the date of your last period?

Claire: <<answer>>

Ethan: Great, your due date is....

or

Ethan: Your baby is <<insert length here>>. So that means he's <<insert gestational age here>>. Therefore, your due date is...

or

Claire: My due date is <<insert due date here>>

You definitely have never been to the OBGYN for an ultrasound.

I have had three kids, one set of twins...needless to say I have had at LEAST 50 ultrasounds in multiple doctors offices/hospitals. NOT ONCE did any of the ultrasounds say the due date and ALL said the date the ultrasound was done. Now that is real life, so they may be doing this to throw us off, they did say she was due in four weeks (or was 36 weeks pg) but that it not how it happened to me, ever.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:07 AM
I dont know if this has been brought up, but in the original reality, Claire never signs the adoption papers, thus not giving the rights of Aaron to Arlene and Joseph, but in the AR, she apperently had consented to give them the baby as she was expecting to see them at the airport.

brendons
02-10-2010, 04:08 AM
Dogen: the demon forces are strong with this one
Sayid: whyyyyy

what language is he speaking btw?

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:09 AM
I like Miles, but I think he is rather underdeveloped as a character. Hell, Faraday and Charlotte were more developed, even though they have both been dead for awhile and were introduced at the same time. I think that a lot of characters that have been introduced since, say, Season 4 have been a little underdeveloped largely because there is just so much going on now that it's hard to flesh them out while giving the older characters enough screen time. It's unfortunate... A real good example of this is Ilana; she's actually part of the main cast this season and we've barely seen her. Good point.... how / why does he have the power that he does? After last week's episode where James was told "it worked", I said, ok, Miles's power finally served a purpose.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:10 AM
I have had three kids, one set of twins...needless to say I have had at LEAST 50 ultrasounds in multiple doctors offices/hospitals. NOT ONCE did any of the ultrasounds say the due date and ALL said the date the ultrasound was done. Now that is real life, so they may be doing this to throw us off, they did say she was due in four weeks (or was 36 weeks pg) but that it not how it happened to me, ever.

How do you have 3 kids and still find the time to post nearly 9,000 times on a lost message board over the span of 9 months? That's 1,000 posts a month, or over 30 posts a day....

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 04:10 AM
I dont know if this has been brought up, but in the original reality, Claire never signs the adoption papers, thus not giving the rights of Aaron to Arlene and Joseph, but in the AR, she apperently had consented to give them the baby as she was expecting to see them at the airport.
I think the key thing is Aaron is never adopted. That seer was right: She was to raise that child herself. And notice also that Kate still winds up with Claire when she goes into labor. Ethan was still her doctor. The only difference, and this is key, is the outcome.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:10 AM
I think the date on the ultrasound is the date the ultrasound was completed, what do we think about the month difference from the original flight? Does it have something to do with the differences in this AR like one bottle of booze instead of two, or does it have to do with timing on the island? Perhaps the losties will spend one more month on the island then poof they go back to AR flight 316, therefore one month later? I think of all the differences, this one month difference bugs me the most. There is a big difference in how ones life might have turned out different if say Jacob never touched the losties, but to have all the same people (minus Shannon) on a flight a full month after it originally was? There is something very off.

Locke is #1
02-10-2010, 04:11 AM
after sayid died, MIB was able to get to him, jacob wanted him brought to the temple because he knew they would diagnose him and give him the pill.

Yoseppi12
02-10-2010, 04:11 AM
I've been wondering if this whole light/dark conflict is going to play out as a kind of living game of chess. Jacob and MiB have been picking teams and maybe eventually it will be clear that each character has an opposite. The first obvious pairing I can think of is Rousseau is light, Clare is dark. Also, Hurley is light, Miles is dark? They both talk to the dead.

A real cool theory I like this...someone was telling me about there being an exact opposite of everyone on the show but I felt like Locke and Sayid were opposites.

Another thing I was thinking about was, Jacob dies he still looks like Jacob. Jacob is alive he still looks like Jacob. MIB alive he looks like a human. MIB is angry he looks like smoke. MIB is in Lockes body now. Like why doesn't he just look like his normal self now?

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:12 AM
after sayid died, MIB was able to get to him, jacob wanted him brought to the temple because he knew they would diagnose him and give him the pill.

How did MIB get to him?

deathwish
02-10-2010, 04:12 AM
MIB's army is all radioactive mind controlled zombies from hell.

Dharma Ranch Dressing
02-10-2010, 04:13 AM
merging with episode discussion thread...where this is being discussed.

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 04:13 AM
How do you have 3 kids and still find the time to post nearly 9,000 times on a lost message board over the span of 9 months? That's 1,000 posts a month, or over 30 posts a day....

Maybe they are grown and away at college :p

3d-aholic
02-10-2010, 04:14 AM
How did MIB get to him?
MiB can claim any player who is dead and not buried for his side.

MM0602
02-10-2010, 04:14 AM
Dogen: the demon forces are strong with this one
Sayid: whyyyyy

what language is he speaking btw?

It's Japanese

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:14 AM
Someone posted this in another thread but I thought I'd mention it here, apparently Claire's ultrasound was dated: 10/22/2004.

That means the flight in the flash-sideways was exactly one month after the original 815! :eek:

Can anyone confirm this?

I'm always a little wary about putting too much stock into something as subtle as the date on the ultra-sound. The writers and producers of Lost do a great job of providing all sorts of subtle clues throughout the show, but not everything is purposeful; this could easily be a mistake on their part.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:15 AM
Maybe they are grown and away at college :p

I should just shut my mouth.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:15 AM
I think the key thing is Aaron is never adopted. That seer was right: She was to raise that child herself. And notice also that Kate still winds up with Claire when she goes into labor. Ethan was still her doctor. The only difference, and this is key, is the outcome.

I get that, but her signing the adoption papers (presumably) in the AR, and her not signing the adoption papers in the regular reality is just another one of those differences between the AR and the R...i.e. Hurley is now lucky, Rose comforts Jack about turbulence, Rose isnt wearing Bernards ring around her neck...and so on and so on

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:16 AM
MiB can claim any player who is dead and not buried for his side.

Ok how do you know that exactly?

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:16 AM
A real cool theory I like this...someone was telling me about there being an exact opposite of everyone on the show but I felt like Locke and Sayid were opposites.

Another thing I was thinking about was, Jacob dies he still looks like Jacob. Jacob is alive he still looks like Jacob. MIB alive he looks like a human. MIB is angry he looks like smoke. MIB is in Lockes body now. Like why doesn't he just look like his normal self now? Because he's got Christian's shoes in his back-pack! I'm tell'n all.... just steal the back-pack and JLokie will have to revert to smoke. ;) He can otherwise only look like a 'person' to someone in emotional distress.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:16 AM
I'm always a little wary about putting too much stock into something as subtle as the date on the ultra-sound. The writers and producers of Lost do a great job of providing all sorts of subtle clues throughout the show, but not everything is purposeful; this could easily be a mistake on their part.

no way that's a mistake. it's proof that the flight has a completely different date.

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 04:18 AM
Because he's got Christian's shoes in his back-pack! I'm tell'n all.... just steal the back-pack and JLokie will have to revert to smoke. ;) He can otherwise only look like a 'person' to someone in emotional distress.

Aren't Christian's shoes on Locke's actual dead body?

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:18 AM
I agree, But I'm having a hard time figuring out who is good and who is bad, or maybe just less bad?

Probably because Lost is too well written to treat morality as being black and white (I realize the irony of this given the constant allusions to black and white in the show...). All the characters in Lost are complicated and flawed; there isn't anyone who seems purely good or, for that matter, purely evil (well, maybe Keamy...). Even Ben has his good moments. I doubt that the Jacob vs. MIB issue is as simple as good vs. evil.

Lost Fan 4815162342
02-10-2010, 04:18 AM
I get that, but her signing the adoption papers (presumably) in the AR, and her not signing the adoption papers in the regular reality is just another one of those differences between the AR and the R...i.e. Hurley is now lucky, Rose comforts Jack about turbulence, Rose isnt wearing Bernards ring around her neck...and so on and so onBut I think that has to do with how the events on the island going forward from the incident affect the conditions or details of flight back to LAX.

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
Probably because Lost is too well written to treat morality as being black and white (I realize the irony of this given the constant allusions to black and white in the show...). All the characters in Lost are complicated and flawed; there isn't anyone who seems purely good or, for that matter, purely evil (well, maybe Keamy...). Even Ben has his good moments. I doubt that the Jacob vs. MIB issue is as simple as good vs. evil.

I'm going to say it again. Look at the LOST Supper pic. Those will be the good and evil teams, the people to the left and right of Locke.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
I agree, But I'm having a hard time figuring out who is good and who is bad, or maybe just less bad? From what I have seen of Jacob, he is better than MIB/Flocke, regardless of Temple/Other people's actions.

Or maybe neither of them are "good or bad". I know... crazy thought.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
no way that's a mistake. it's proof that the flight has a completely different date.

I agree, the producers of Lost fully know that the fans will carefully deconstruct any little clue in an episode, the date of the original flight/crash is well known, and they had to MAKE the ultrasound as a prop, I think the date was very intentional.

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
Aren't Christian's shoes on Locke's actual dead body?

Nope. Remember in dead is dead we saw him put them on when he and Ben reached the Dharma dock.

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
Aren't Christian's shoes on Locke's actual dead body? Nope... JLokie was pushing them into the back-pack in I think 5x02. ...the next time we see him after the reveal that he was seemingly back 'alive'.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:22 AM
I'm going to say it again. Look at the LOST Supper pic. Those will be the good and evil teams, the people to the left and right of Locke.

but the actual last supper picture does not have good on one side, and evil on the other

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:22 AM
Nope. Remember in dead is dead we saw him put them on when he and Ben reached the Dharma dock.

This is in reference to Christians shoes now on Locke. As far as I recall, dead Locke (along with Christian's shoes) was "protected" by Illana and Brom, how would Flocke get the shoes?

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:24 AM
I'm going to say it again. Look at the LOST Supper pic. Those will be the good and evil teams, the people to the left and right of Locke.

But isn't there two Lost Supper pics? Some of the Characters moved from one side to the other. Which pic is correct? Which side is good, is there actually a good side?

maradom
02-10-2010, 04:26 AM
The first reaction Dogen had when they arrived after what, a 30 second
analysis of the situation, was "shoot them"! Aldo wanted to kill Jin outside the temple. Followers of someone "good" shouldn't behave this way. Everyone seems to want to be "the good guys" and they are all fairly
random and cold blooded killers.

How can he tell there is a blackness in Sayid --- like Claire? Did Claire
die and get saved by the spring?

Could MIB be the voice Locke heard in the cabin that said "Help Me"? When
did the ash circle break and how? I've seen this asked but never answered.

This is setting up nicely for an epic battle with some of our LOSTies on
each side. I like how someone earlier described the LOST Supper (I need to
find that).

And I love how the characters are reconnecting in ALT, there is some
destiny happening, though what I have no clue!

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 04:26 AM
This is in reference to Christians shoes now on Locke. As far as I recall, dead Locke (along with Christian's shoes) was "protected" by Illana and Brom, how would Flocke get the shoes?

That is what I am wondering. How did he GET the shoes off of the body?

Miss4pt0
02-10-2010, 04:28 AM
That is what I am wondering. How did he GET the shoes off of the body?

Ilana et al didnt find real Locke until after Flocke left, so it would seem Flocke went to the cargo hold where he knew Locke's body was and took them.

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:31 AM
This is in reference to Christians shoes now on Locke. As far as I recall, dead Locke (along with Christian's shoes) was "protected" by Illana and Brom, how would Flocke get the shoes? I have wondered the same thing... and I frame-by-frame stepped forward to see if dead Locke was wearing shoes or not but didn't see any shots of it; to figure out if I could debuk myself or not.

However that doesn't lessen the fact that one of the 1st scenes we saw of Lock alive on the island after the 316 crash in season 5, he was pushing shoes into the black backpack. I jumped to the conclusion that they were the magic shoes of Christian, and not magically cloned/replicated shoes... ;)


...this is all rather ridiculous... isn't it?!!! :D

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:31 AM
Ilana et al didnt find real Locke until after Flocke left, so it would seem Flocke went to the cargo hold where he knew Locke's body was and took them.

Flocke is also wearing Locke's suit, but Locke is clearly still dressed when dumped onto the sand at the statue, perhaps we are just seeing part of the illusion that makes MIB Flocke?

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:32 AM
But isn't there two Lost Supper pics? Some of the Characters moved from one side to the other. Which pic is correct? Which side is good, is there actually a good side?

Yeah; I don't think we should read too much into The Lost Supper pictures. I doubt that it reflects the teams our beloved Losties will split into if they do, in fact, split into teams.

Even if they do split into opposing sides, it's likely that there will be defections and such...

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:32 AM
But isn't there two Lost Supper pics? Some of the Characters moved from one side to the other. Which pic is correct? Which side is good, is there actually a good side?

I looked at the pictures. The only two people who move are Miles and Claire I believe. They switch sides.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/photos/stylus/119882-lost_supper_sm.jpg

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/photos/stylus/119881-lost_supper_2_sm.jpg

gilbo125
02-10-2010, 04:33 AM
but the actual last supper picture does not have good on one side, and evil on the other

No but it also had jesus and his 12 disciples. not locke with 13 'soldiers'

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:33 AM
Also, when they showed the pop up video version of the second half of the LA X, did anyone notice that one of the captions stated that Kate was being brought back to the US because she killed her father? I thought it was determined (through some film at Comic Con) that Kate attempted to kill her father in this AR but she really killed a plumber. Can anyone clarify?

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:33 AM
That is what I am wondering. How did he GET the shoes off of the body? I actually started a thread in the Main forum about this very topic before 6x02 started... we could debate it there.

I am half joking... the other half is asking, why's he walking around with that back-pack?!

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:36 AM
Also, when they showed the pop up video version of the second half of the LA X, did anyone notice that one of the captions stated that Kate was being brought back to the US because she killed her father? I thought it was determined (through some film at Comic Con) that Kate attempted to kill her father in this AR but she really killed a plumber. Can anyone clarify?

I dont know if she killed a plumber or not, but Kate did ask Claire if she would believe her if she said she was innocent, she stopped short of actually saying she was innocent, but in this reality, maybe she is

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 04:36 AM
I really liked the use of the term "claimed" to describe Sayid.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:36 AM
I looked at the pictures. The only two people who move are Miles and Claire I believe. They switch sides.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/photos/stylus/119882-lost_supper_sm.jpg

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/photos/stylus/119881-lost_supper_2_sm.jpg

Miles and Claire are the only ones who switch "sides" but Hurley, Ben and Sun move positions on the same "side"

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:36 AM
Could MIB be the voice Locke heard in the cabin that said "Help Me"? When
did the ash circle break and how? I've seen this asked but never answered.



ABC re-aired LA X tonight right before the new episode. The version of LA X played tonight was the 'enhanced' version where they provide notes on the bottom of the screen; one of these notes mentioned that the circle of ash was protecting The Cabin from the MIB but that Ilana et al. discovered that someone had broken the circle of ash thus allowing the MIB to break into the cabin.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:36 AM
Also, when they showed the pop up video version of the second half of the LA X, did anyone notice that one of the captions stated that Kate was being brought back to the US because she killed her father? I thought it was determined (through some film at Comic Con) that Kate attempted to kill her father in this AR but she really killed a plumber. Can anyone clarify?

I can't clarify. But she did say she was innocent. Maybe she just got accused of killing her father this time?

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:37 AM
Miles and Claire at the only ones who switch "sides" but Hurley, Ben and Sun move positions on the same "side"

Is there supposed to be a clue in the picture?

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:38 AM
I dont know if she killed a plumber or not, but Kate did ask Claire if she would believe her if she said she was innocent, she stopped short of actually saying she was innocent, but in this reality, maybe she is

I caught that clever non-answer too. But if she is innocent, what happened to cause her to be arrested and brought back to the US?

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:39 AM
ABC re-aired LA X tonight right before the new episode. The version of LA X played tonight was the 'enhanced' version where they provide notes on the bottom of the screen; one of these notes mentioned that the circle of ash was protecting The Cabin from the MIB but that Ilana et al. discovered that someone had broken the circle of ash thus allowing the MIB to break into the cabin. I liked that too... ;)

I'm not sure if this it true or not, but I understand TPTB don't have any involvement in what is written in the pop-ups. Hope I'm not persisting a rumor. Will anyone confirm?

Juliett
02-10-2010, 04:39 AM
I may be missing something, but what has Claire done that was bad?


I think that the term infected shouldn't be taken literally. Sayid has been a bad boy. I think Sayid was infected long before he came to the Temple. I don't remember him asking for redemption for any of his previous transgressions. Same thing for Ben, Sawyer, and Claire. They did what they had to do and never looked back. They embraced the "darkness" as part of their being. Sure they are likable but they did some terrible things that they never asked for forgiveness.

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:40 AM
Is there supposed to be a clue in the picture?

I don't know, but I was just pointing out that more characters move around than Miles and Claire.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:41 AM
I caught that clever non-answer too. But if she is innocent, what happened to cause her to be arrested and brought back to the US?

???:confused: Dharma set her up?

rezeero
02-10-2010, 04:41 AM
So all that TPTB kept saying about the Zombie Season is not a joke. :eek:

lolita.lethal
02-10-2010, 04:42 AM
When Aldo and the other guy catch Jin again at the creek, they say "He's one of them!" Who are they referring to when they say "them?" Those on the list?

themoonechoes
02-10-2010, 04:44 AM
When Aldo and the other guy catch Jin again at the creek, they say "He's one of them!" Who are they referring to when they say "them?" Those on the list?

I think that is the logical thing, those on Jacob's list.

Bewilderbeest
02-10-2010, 04:44 AM
I actually started a thread in the Main forum about this very topic before 6x02 started... we could debate it there.

I am half joking... the other half is asking, why's he walking around with that back-pack?!

Oh my God. SHOES.

Clearly, John Locke's destiny was to leave the island, die, and come back because Christian needed better shoes. Those white sneakers he's been wearing just don't go with the suit.

purplejesus
02-10-2010, 04:45 AM
When Aldo and the other guy catch Jin again at the creek, they say "He's one of them!" Who are they referring to when they say "them?" Those on the list?

I thought they were just referring to Kate or Jin. They ran away, Aldo and the other guy were looking for them, and they found "One of them!!"

Sometimes on this show a sandwich is just a sandwich

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:46 AM
So all that TPTB kept saying about the Zombie Season is not a joke. :eek: Just remember... Zombie will never admit they are a Zombie. It takes at least "13 steps" before they will realize that level of self-growth. (I've got my new sigie!)

averageman
02-10-2010, 04:52 AM
Now, at the end of tonights episode the others claimed that a darkness was taking over Sayid, and that it had happened to Jacks sister, Claire. But the thing is Claire didn't die and get taken over Aaron did. In the first 3 episodes of the show, Claire told Jack that "my baby, he hasnt kicked in days." and she feared that Aaron had died in the crash, but at the end of the Episode Aaron began kicking again and it was used to sybolize the magic of the island. but it wasnt just a maricle, the same thing happened to Sayid, he was shot, and by the end of the episode he was alive again. Then later that season Claire was abducted by Ethan, we proceeded to tell her that her baby was sick and injected her with things that he said were medicine, just like what the others were trying to do to Sayid. But Ethan was stopped by the survivors and Claire escaped before Ethan could kill Aaron, so i suggest that Aaron was "claimed" by Jacobs enemy and the person currentley inside John Locke.

Tarya
02-10-2010, 04:54 AM
I really dont' understand all the hatred & whining about this episode. Granted it wasn't as epic as LA X but it was still a solid one. To get epic you need TOQ :D

So much for Claire's 'clean' record huh? Of course if she's 'infected' then she's not really herself so technically she didn't shoot Aldo & the other Other guy :p Actually Claire (especially) being 'infected' makes believe even more that MIB is the good guy in all this.

I love seeing some of the old Kate & Jack even Sawyer. Jack & Kate bored me the last couple of seasons and while I liked the good & romantic side of Sawyer, I missed his bitter & 'leave me alone' side of season 1.

I was watching Doc Jensen's Totally Lost earlier and they had some teasers for tonight's episode. The last one was Michael Emerson saying: " What if you saw what the show meant but couldn't recognize it?" :confused:
It's not really a spoiler, more of a cryptic question, but I'm not taking any risks
I really need to rewatch this episode but i have to get ready for work. Time difference is a bitch :mad:

SmokeyKate
02-10-2010, 04:55 AM
To Averageman -
If that were the case, why wouldn't Aaron need to have come back to the island with Kate?

SmokeyKate
02-10-2010, 04:56 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now?

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:56 AM
....That could very well be an "OMG" observation, made by an averageman.

I have read "Aaron creeps me out" -type posts more than a few times.

swhunter
02-10-2010, 04:58 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now?

I think he was referring to Dogan (the Japanese guy) not having a sense of humor. Not Jack.

m8o
02-10-2010, 04:58 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now? I didn't get back to that on a re-watch to hear that again. Glad I wasn't imagining. I'm not behind that final statement tho. It told me, it's not their 1st time doing all this...

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 04:58 AM
When Aldo and the other guy catch Jin again at the creek, they say "He's one of them!" Who are they referring to when they say "them?" Those on the list?

I keep saying this, but no one else has commented on it or really replied to my posts about it (possibly because it's obvious and people are already taking it as a given) but it seems fairly clear to me that Jacob's List that was in the Ankh, the one listing the people who the Temple Others are supposed to protect, is a list of those Losties 'touched' by Jacob in the flashbacks in The Incident. I think that these particular characters are special and were chosen by Jacob for some purpose, they are to be protected at all costs. I also think that they are the 'them' to which Aldo's companion James was referring. What's more, I think they are the people to which Jacob was referring when he said 'They're Coming' right after being stabbed by Ben.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 04:58 AM
Now, at the end of tonights episode the others claimed that a darkness was taking over Sayid, and that it had happened to Jacks sister, Claire. But the thing is Claire didn't die and get taken over Aaron did. In the first 3 episodes of the show, Claire told Jack that "my baby, he hasnt kicked in days." and she feared that Aaron had died in the crash, but at the end of the Episode Aaron began kicking again and it was used to sybolize the magic of the island. but it wasnt just a maricle, the same thing happened to Sayid, he was shot, and by the end of the episode he was alive again. Then later that season Claire was abducted by Ethan, we proceeded to tell her that her baby was sick and injected her with things that he said were medicine, just like what the others were trying to do to Sayid. But Ethan was stopped by the survivors and Claire escaped before Ethan could kill Aaron, so i suggest that Aaron was "claimed" by Jacobs enemy and the person currentley inside John Locke.

:eek:

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 05:02 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now?

Yep Jack not having a sense of humor before means he is dead. You figured it out.

jklamb2
02-10-2010, 05:02 AM
Ok. The other , others...has the Japanese guy been in charge of them the whole time? What about Ben? Also, if the MIB is smokey and Ben is a other, how did he call him up? Why didn't the Japanese guy know that Ben was calling him up?

m8o
02-10-2010, 05:02 AM
RSMFields, I hope you've added the quote in your sig to the Best Quotes thread...! hahaha. Yes, I loved that one too. (tho maybe it's in there already)

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 05:03 AM
Now, at the end of tonights episode the others claimed that a darkness was taking over Sayid, and that it had happened to Jacks sister, Claire. But the thing is Claire didn't die and get taken over Aaron did. In the first 3 episodes of the show, Claire told Jack that "my baby, he hasnt kicked in days." and she feared that Aaron had died in the crash, but at the end of the Episode Aaron began kicking again and it was used to sybolize the magic of the island. but it wasnt just a maricle, the same thing happened to Sayid, he was shot, and by the end of the episode he was alive again. Then later that season Claire was abducted by Ethan, we proceeded to tell her that her baby was sick and injected her with things that he said were medicine, just like what the others were trying to do to Sayid. But Ethan was stopped by the survivors and Claire escaped before Ethan could kill Aaron, so i suggest that Aaron was "claimed" by Jacobs enemy and the person currentley inside John Locke.

If Cuse and Lindelof really had that intricate of a storyline development planned out that early in season 1 I'll be shocked and give them major props. However, I highly doubt this is the case, largely because they have said that they didn't really map out the main storylines until sometime late in season 2/early season when they finally determined how many seasons they had in total to work with. During season 1 and 2, when these Claire/Aaron episodes were written, they only had a very general, vague idea of where the show was going (at least this is my impression from the many interviews I've seen/read)

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 05:03 AM
So all that TPTB kept saying about the Zombie Season is not a joke. :eek:

I think the creators of Lost have found a way to make another Science Fiction topic really cool.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 05:05 AM
If Cuse and Lindelof really had that intricate of a storyline development planned out that early in season 1 I'll be shocked and give them major props. However, I highly doubt this is the case, largely because they have said that they didn't really map out the main storylines until sometime late in season 2/early season when they finally determined how many seasons they had in total to work with. During season 1 and 2, when these Claire/Aaron episodes were written, they only had a very general, vague idea of where the show was going (at least this is my impression from the many interviews I've seen/read)

Unless Aaron being evil has been in the works for the whole show, maybe it will have something to do with the finale.

RSMFields
02-10-2010, 05:08 AM
I was watching Doc Jensen's Totally Lost earlier and they had some teasers for tonight's episode. The last one was Michael Emerson saying: " What if you saw what the show meant but couldn't recognize it?" :confused:
It's not really a spoiler, more of a cryptic question, but I'm not taking any risks
I really need to rewatch this episode but i have to get ready for work. Time difference is a bitch :mad:

I think that is what the show has been doing already, like MIB using John Locke's body, seems so obvious if you rewatch some of season five.

That is what makes a really good mystery, having all the clues but not being sure how they fit together.

Eva
02-10-2010, 05:13 AM
Hasn't Aaron "died" momentarily while Clair was in the hospital? And then on the US he starts moving again. So yes, it looks like he is being claimed/used again.

DriveshaftRoadie
02-10-2010, 05:19 AM
Hasn't Aaron "died" momentarily while Clair was in the hospital? And then on the US he starts moving again. So yes, it looks like he is being claimed/used again.

If you remember back in season 1, there's a brief period where Claire can't feel Aaron kicking in her womb. He only responds again when she eats some of the seafood Jin gives her. I think that momentary flatlining is referencing that time from Season 1.

SmokeyKate
02-10-2010, 05:19 AM
Hasn't Aaron "died" momentarily while Clair was in the hospital? And then on the US he starts moving again. So yes, it looks like he is being claimed/used again.

I definitely thought the same thing - how ironic (or not) that Aaron stopped moving on the island, and then stopped moving in LA. Probably not coincidence

m8o
02-10-2010, 05:20 AM
Hasn't Aaron "died" momentarily while Clair was in the hospital? And then on the US he starts moving again. So yes, it looks like he is being claimed/used again. As much as I like what our regularguy started... I've noticed countless parallels of actions performed by the Losties between what we saw happen on the island in the 1st season, to what we're seeing in LA. I've even been wondering if they're happening the same number of minutes after the start of the show; crash of 815. But alas, that part "no"... they had the scare in the hospital room hours after the plane landed, and it was over the course of days after the start on the island. And Aaron not being 'dead' in LA would imply to me that he was never dead while in Claire's womb on the island.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 05:21 AM
I really dont' understand all the hatred & whining about this episode. Granted it wasn't as epic as LA X but it was still a solid one. To get epic you need TOQ :D

I don't think people hated this episode, it just wasn't anything special. Me modal category in the poll of how good the episode is over at DarkUFO is currently 'OK' which is not the same as awful and doesn't mean people hated it. Honestly, people tend to exaggerate how good episodes are (an episode where the vast majority of votes rank it as being 'OK' or better should NOT be one of the lowest ranked episodes).

I just didn't feel like there was much to this episode, especially given that this is the final season and there is so many mysteries that have to be solved. I think that this was really just a transitional episode that is setting up a bunch of things that will be more exciting in coming episodes. It just didn't have much meat, but sometimes episodes have to be that way to set up coming story arcs.

A few problems/concerns of mine that made me like this episode a little less (I myself ranked it as 'ok'):

1. The ALT timeline took up a lot of time in this episode and in LA X. Since it appears to be the replacement for Flashbacks and Flashforwards I think its pretty safe to assume it's going to take up a lot of time in every episode this season. Right now, this makes me a little nervous. I love the island scenes and don't want to be taken away from them, especially this late in the series, with so many unanswered questions left, unless its for something important. Now, I have faith in Cuse and Lindelof and believe that the ALT Timeline will prove very relevant but right now it doesn't really feel that way. Until it starts becoming more clear as to what the ALT timeline's connection is with the island timeline I'm going to continue to feel like these scenes are taking valuable time from the island scenes. I think part of the problem is that these ALT timeline scenes, by their very nature, can't answer any of the major mysteries (unlike flashbacks and flashforwards).


2. Dogen, Lennon, Aldo, et al; these two characters kind of bother me. Aldo was just painfully bad tonight. He was annoying, the actor playing him didn't do a very good job, the whole character was just contrived (although he was pretty damn hot!). Dogen seems a little over the top, almost a caricature or satirical character that seems to have wandered off of the set of a Quentin Tarantino movie. And Lennon doesn't do much for me, either.

3. No Flocke, Richard, Ben, Sun, Ilana or Lapidus. Seriously, at this point I want to be keeping up with all the characters. There's too many separate groups to keep track of now. Ilana is part of the main cast now and we still know basically nothing about her. Lapidus is part of the main cast now, too, and we haven't seen much of him since Season 4. Sun has always been part of the main cast and you wouldn't even know it now. She's always been a resilient characters and, in fact, is probably one of my top 5 favorite characters on Lost but she's all but faded into the background... We need to see more of these guys.

4. I'm tired of people not answering each others questions and of everyone keeping secrets; you'd think that they'd realize by now that they would all benefit from sharing information. Really, the Temple Others need to start talking and explain a little more about what's going on. We're about to start hour 4 of Season 6 and we still have almost no idea of where the story is heading.

I know it sounds like I'm complaining a lot, don't let that give the impression that I'm unhappy! Lost is my favorite show, hell, I honestly think its the best piece of fiction I've ever seen. I have high hopes for this season and I think upcoming episodes (including next weeks) are going to be great. I just have a few problems with what we've seen thus far this season.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 05:22 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now?

Lennon was saying that he didn't think Dogen, not Jack, had much of a sense of humor. It was just a general comment about Dogen's personality.

m8o
02-10-2010, 05:25 AM
Lennon was saying that he didn't think Dogen, not Jack, had much of a sense of humor. It was just a general comment about Dogen's personality. I'm watching this year's Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Cover model on Dave right now, so didn't get to it on a re-watch yet. ...Priorities... Priorities. But I've got to re-see that.

SmokeyKate
02-10-2010, 05:29 AM
Lennon was saying that he didn't think Dogen, not Jack, had much of a sense of humor. It was just a general comment about Dogen's personality.

But Jack was the one who said "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
Why would Lennon be referring to Dogen if Jack asked the question?

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 05:30 AM
But Jack was the one who said "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
Why would he be talking to Dogen if Jack asked the question?

He said that because Dogen chuckled. Jack was being incredulous, asking Dogen if he was supposed to think Dogen's comment was funny (because Dogen chuckled upon saying it) to which Lennon replied that he doubted it because Dogen didn't have a sense of humor. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

deathwish
02-10-2010, 05:40 AM
This is one of the few episodes that hasn't left me with a headache while trying to figure things out. The only thing giving me a headache now is some of the loony theories people are coming up with about things that don't need to be theorized about.

Lael
02-10-2010, 05:41 AM
I feel like there were echoes of Rousseau throughout this episode. When Sayid was electrocuted it made me think of the way she did that to him way back in the beginning.
That's a really good call. I just thought she was trying to get him to talk, but I seem to recall that she was worried that he was sick too, so maybe she was "diagnosing" him too.

"Quarantine" is starting to make a little more sense. :D
Yes, I always thought that was written on the door as a scare tactic but now, I'm starting to wonder if it really was a quarantined place meant to protect the people INSIDE.


So are we now to assume Claire did die in the house explosion and they healed her, but she also was over taken by a darkness?
That's a great thought...Sawyer carried her out of the rubble, they went into the woods that night. Perhaps she died of internal injuries in the night while they were sleeping, she was "possessed" or whatever, and she got up and walked into the darkness.


It's pretty obvious that they're all going to experience this deja vu. I'm just curious as to how strong its going to become and if they actually start recognizing each other.
I completely agree that they'll all experience this to some extent. Deja vu is a phenomemon that cannot really be explained, it happens to all of us, this would be an interesting answer as to why.


I'm more convinced than ever that the Others is the Island Cult. It's also creepy that Lennon looks like David Koresh.
Good call on the Koresh thing!

I think it's time to call these this group what it seems to me what it is: a superstitious cult.
I'm totally down with the Cult theory. However, if you look up the FBI's thirteen point definition of a cult, these guys don't meet half of them. But I still like it. :p


And you're off-island validation for christian not being mib is epic fail. Just before he appears to jack....THE SMOKE ALARM IS GOIN OFF. That was enough confirmation for me. Christian = MIB
OMG, reading this was jaw-dropping for me. Do you really think that was on purpose? Wow. Good idea.


How do you have 3 kids and still find the time to post nearly 9,000 times on a lost message board over the span of 9 months? That's 1,000 posts a month, or over 30 posts a day....
So she's a more dedicated fan of LOST than you are...that's what you're getting at, right? Cuz I know you're not trying to be rude for no reason. You wouldn't do that.

I love everything about this season so far. I feel like I am getting a lot of answers. And not just answers, but REVELATIONS. And I love reading everything you guys have to say. So many smarts in this room. ;)

Ferenci130
02-10-2010, 05:53 AM
I think the same thing that happened to Rousseau's crew happened to Claire and Sayid.

Hart
02-10-2010, 05:54 AM
Oh brilliant. i love it, great theories.

Certainly could be the case, but I'd like to imagine there would be more mystery and intrigue to the Last Supper pic than left half bad, right half good.

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:04 AM
I keep saying this, but no one else has commented on it or really replied to my posts about it (possibly because it's obvious and people are already taking it as a given) but it seems fairly clear to me that Jacob's List that was in the Ankh, the one listing the people who the Temple Others are supposed to protect, is a list of those Losties 'touched' by Jacob in the flashbacks in The Incident. I think that these particular characters are special and were chosen by Jacob for some purpose, they are to be protected at all costs. I also think that they are the 'them' to which Aldo's companion James was referring. What's more, I think they are the people to which Jacob was referring when he said 'They're Coming' right after being stabbed by Ben.

This is probably the case, but does ANYone think the "they" in "they're coming" indicates other as yet unseen characters that, despite perhaps bordering on deus ex machina, might be the ones to really get things in gear and wrap this stuff up? Just wondering.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 06:08 AM
This is probably the case, but does ANYone think the "they" in "they're coming" indicates other as yet unseen characters that, despite perhaps bordering on deus ex machina, might be the ones to really get things in gear and wrap this stuff up? Just wondering.

I hope not. I sincerely hope the Losties 'touched' by Jacob in The Incident are the 'they' referred to by Jacob. We really don't need more new characters at this point; there's already too many characters to follow (seeing as how Ilana, Frank and Sun have had virtually no screen time this season or last even though all three are part of the main cast now) and they've already introduced several new characters this season.

toxicspider
02-10-2010, 06:08 AM
Here is an idea - the "infection" has nothing to do with the smokey. It is what's inside the person. Sayid said it himself many times that he is a bad man. He is trying to be better. Perhaps the darkness of his past is eating at him - remember the comment after he shot Ben - "I am a killer." Maybe he is trying to give up that violent part of himself, but circumstances seem to prevent him from it, regularly. Add to this a possibility of him being possessed by Jacob and a potential struggle between Jacob's entity (who i am still not convinced is entirely benevolent) and Sayid's own dark capabilities and maybe you get somewhere.
Claire is more difficult to explain. Maybe a person who is capable of giving up her own baby, is also capable of pretty dark actions as well. On the other hand, maybe she IS possessed by Rousso - both of them have similar experiences with their kids on the island - constant danger, and eventual loss? I don't know - just some thoughts.

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:08 AM
So do you think Japanese guy and Ben know about each other? I mean it seems likely that Japanese guy probably knows about Ben, but the other way around? Boy, it sure invalidates Ben's grandiose claims about knowing everything that's going on on the island. Kinda starting to think Ben didn't really know "jack."

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:12 AM
Here is an idea - the "infection" has nothing to do with the smokey. It is what's inside the person. Sayid said it himself many times that he is a bad man. He is trying to be better. Perhaps the darkness of his past is eating at him - remember the comment after he shot Ben - "I am a killer." Maybe he is trying to give up that violent part of himself, but circumstances seem to prevent him from it, regularly. Add to this a possibility of him being possessed by Jacob and a potential struggle between Jacob's entity (who i am still not convinced is entirely benevolent) and Sayid's own dark capabilities and maybe you get somewhere.
Claire is more difficult to explain. Maybe a person who is capable of giving up her own baby, is also capable of pretty dark actions as well. On the other hand, maybe she IS possessed by Rousso - both of them have similar experiences with their kids on the island - constant danger, and eventual loss? I don't know - just some thoughts.

I considered this, too (the part about Claire potentially being "bad" for giving up her baby). But I can't imagine they'd go this route and label a woman giving her child up for adoption "bad." Serious can of worms. Besides, Claire was considering adoption for all the right reasons, wasn't she (been so, so long) and so it would actually be a good thing? Torturing prisoners of war not equal to providing better home for your unexpected child.

swhunter
02-10-2010, 06:17 AM
So do you think Japanese guy and Ben know about each other? I mean it seems likely that Japanese guy probably knows about Ben, but the other way around? Boy, it sure invalidates Ben's grandiose claims about knowing everything that's going on on the island. Kinda starting to think Ben didn't really know "jack."

Absolutely. I think, in the end, Ben didn't know much more about the big picture than Locke.

Ever Adrift
02-10-2010, 06:22 AM
So do you think Japanese guy and Ben know about each other? I mean it seems likely that Japanese guy probably knows about Ben, but the other way around? Boy, it sure invalidates Ben's grandiose claims about knowing everything that's going on on the island. Kinda starting to think Ben didn't really know "jack."

I think it's pretty clear Ben knew about Dogen and the Temple. After all, he sent his Others to the Temple during Season 4, after the freighter arrived. He told Alex and Rousseau to go to the Temple because it was the last safe place on the island. Hell, he was brought to the Temple as a kid after being shot by Sayid to be healed in the water. He definitely knew about the Temple so almost certainly knew of Dogen. Cindy, the kids and Aldo were all living in the barracks with Ben and are now at the Temple, too. They are all clearly one group, they just seem to have different groups to do different things. Ben led a group of Others who stayed at the Barracks and maintained connections with the 'real world' and maintained island security while Dogen let another group that stayed at the temple.

m8o
02-10-2010, 06:32 AM
Here is an idea - the "infection" has nothing to do with the smokey. It is what's inside the person. Sayid said it himself many times that he is a bad man. He is trying to be better. Perhaps the darkness of his past is eating at him - remember the comment after he shot Ben - "I am a killer." Maybe he is trying to give up that violent part of himself, but circumstances seem to prevent him from it, regularly. ...etc As much as I agree with this general assessment, it doesn't necessary hold given the cast of characters we know. By this measure Ethan and Ben and countless others are unequivocally infected as well, and should be swallowing the Kool-aid powder.

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 06:35 AM
So do you think Japanese guy and Ben know about each other? I mean it seems likely that Japanese guy probably knows about Ben, but the other way around? Boy, it sure invalidates Ben's grandiose claims about knowing everything that's going on on the island. Kinda starting to think Ben didn't really know "jack."

I've been wondering what sort of hierarchy there has been in place or if these different leaders amongst the others are distinct in their own zones or something. I guess it will be interesting to see once say Ben or Richard has an interaction with Dogen.

One thing I noticed during the LA X part 2 replay was that they referred to Dogen as the "Temple Master" or something, so it very well could be that he is basically just in charge of that area only. While he may be the head honcho there and know about other people, no saying right now whether or not he has authority over these other leaders we have seen.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 06:38 AM
Could MIB be the voice Locke heard in the cabin that said "Help Me"? When
did the ash circle break and how? I've seen this asked but never answered.

yes. answered

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:41 AM
Yeah, thanks for all the clarification. Just weird when there's new characters on island all the time. I actually would prefer to think Ben has some sort of relationship with Dogen versus not, considering how long Ben's been on the island, and likely, Dogen as well. Guess we knew this was coming somewhat on account of not knowing the whereabouts of Cindy and the kids.

m8o
02-10-2010, 06:42 AM
So do you think Japanese guy and Ben know about each other? I mean it seems likely that Japanese guy probably knows about Ben, but the other way around? Boy, it sure invalidates Ben's grandiose claims about knowing everything that's going on on the island. Kinda starting to think Ben didn't really know "jack." I'd think Ben definitely knows about Dogen.

Otherwise, The Others at Jacob's foot were ridiculously passive. I couldn't believe Ben didn't get a bullet to the back of the head. I have a a glimmer of hope it may still happen @ the hands of the Temple Others. I seriously doubt it, as there's a "big end" for Ben, I'm sure. But I really really want to see him get a bullet to the head for all he's done... :o

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:46 AM
Is everybody still in the Jacob is good, MiB is bad camp? I'm not good at figuring stuff out and I don't remember things, but I'm really feeling it's all been designed to fool us and it'll be the opposite.

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 06:48 AM
Yeah, thanks for all the clarification. Just weird when there's new characters on island all the time. I actually would prefer to think Ben has some sort of relationship with Dogen versus not, considering how long Ben's been on the island, and likely, Dogen as well. Guess we knew this was coming somewhat on account of not knowing the whereabouts of Cindy and the kids.

I have to believe that he at least knows who Dogen is or is aware of the leadership at the Temple, since he sent them there during the finale a few seasons ago as the one safe haven or whatever he called it. Whether or not he has spent much time there at all after being healed is another story.

What would be interesting would have been seeing Ben there before he turned the wheel... or John, for that matter. Richard, on the other hand is always a bit of an enigma as to if he has been a permanent #2 in command and de facto interim leader when they are lacking the leader. His comments with Ilana in LA X were what make me wonder I guess what standing the off-island people have in the grand scale.

and about the good/bad between Jacob/MiB, I still do not know if it is that simple. While I don't see evidence of Jacob himself being evil, I feel at this point that MiB could be just misunderstood and is taking a different approach to protecting the island or something. But then again, dude wants to "go home" wherever that is, so I'm not sure.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 06:50 AM
Did anyone else catch the creepy guy say to Jack, "you never did have a sense of humor before" or something along those lines? It was in response to Jack saying, "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
It gave me the impression that Jack is dead. Meaning that he never had a sense of humor when he was alive, so why would he now?

total misquote. he said Mr. Miagi didnt have a sense of humor

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 06:52 AM
total misquote. he said Mr. Miagi didnt have a sense of humor

Ok, that made me laugh, and I feel I needed that after reading too much of that "What Kate Does. Arguably..." thread in MF.

Hart
02-10-2010, 06:55 AM
I have to believe that he at least knows who Dogen is or is aware of the leadership at the Temple, since he sent them there during the finale a few seasons ago as the one safe haven or whatever he called it. Whether or not he has spent much time there at all after being healed is another story.

What would be interesting would have been seeing Ben there before he turned the wheel... or John, for that matter. Richard, on the other hand is always a bit of an enigma as to if he has been a permanent #2 in command and de facto interim leader when they are lacking the leader. His comments with Ilana in LA X were what make me wonder I guess what standing the off-island people have in the grand scale.

and about the good/bad between Jacob/MiB, I still do not know if it is that simple. While I don't see evidence of Jacob himself being evil, I feel at this point that MiB could be just misunderstood and is taking a different approach to protecting the island or something. But then again, dude wants to "go home" wherever that is, so I'm not sure.

And it makes me wonder about Ben's role in the grand scheme of things. Unlike the main characters on the list(s), Ben seems to have become a player in everything by chance which seems a little weird to me considering how significant his character has been built up. I can't believe Ben's future isn't of comparable importance as the Losties. Surely his ultimate job description wasn't just as a stand-in leader for Jacob, MiB, whomever. To me, he kinda became almost the main character aside from maybe Locke, perhaps Jack.

zephyr40k
02-10-2010, 06:57 AM
Re: this scene:

Hurley: You're not a Zombie, right?
Sayid: (after some hesitation) No, I am not a Zombie

It would have been "cooler" IMHO if it went like this:

Hurley: You're not a Zombie, right?
Sayid: (Pause) Zombies do not feel pain, correct?
Hurley: That's right.
Sayid: (after some hesitation) Then no, I am definitely not a Zombie.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 06:57 AM
But Jack was the one who said "Am I supposed to think that's funny?"
Why would Lennon be referring to Dogen if Jack asked the question?

again epic fail. he says "did i say something funny?"

Bboboo
02-10-2010, 06:58 AM
I know it was mentioned but just adding a picture to the whole ultra sound issue, not sure if a picture has been posted before.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6758/capturennf.jpg

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 07:05 AM
And it makes me wonder about Ben's role in the grand scheme of things. Unlike the main characters on the list(s), Ben seems to have become a player in everything by chance which seems a little weird to me considering how significant his character has been built up. I can't believe Ben's future isn't of comparable importance as the Losties. Surely his ultimate job description wasn't just as a stand-in leader for Jacob, MiB, whomever. To me, he kinda became almost the main character aside from maybe Locke, perhaps Jack.

I agree with this and that he should have some bigger role to play, not as if he has not played a large role so far. But yeah, the fact that he has gone from the manipulator to the manipulated, I don't see them just finishing his story with like a villain's death/ending.

Thing is, it's interesting to consider how he has basically been manipulated the whole time in that he had been blindly following something and being forced into a course of action, so the major difference in that regard from the Losties is that he was not on the plane.

One thing I am looking forward to is the reactions when he does end up linking up with the Others again to see how that plays out since he did basically give up his post.

Plus, considering the way that his character has turned heads among fans, there is no way that there isn't a major final act for him.

@Bboboo thanks for posting that pic

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 07:08 AM
Is everybody still in the Jacob is good, MiB is bad camp? I'm not good at figuring stuff out and I don't remember things, but I'm really feeling it's all been designed to fool us and it'll be the opposite.

im in your camp brutha. The mysterious deity just tryin to get home, and the sly, self proclaimed good guy, manipulating people to come to the island; which one sounds like the good guy?

OceanicOnFire
02-10-2010, 07:09 AM
Another observation I want to port over hear from the in-show thread...

Interesting Supernatural episode once. War [the god, or demi-god?] was causing two groups of people to see the others as demons and they were trying to kill each other. None of them were anyone but who they actually were... except for War.

There's some parallels here. What if noone is actually ever infected. But the impression of them are swayed to make others think they are?

..ugh, if that's the premise of this whole show! I recall the enhanced season 5 finale stated a 3rd quote from Jacob's weaving was something like "only the dead know an end to war".

I'm also a Supernatural fan, and I totally see this happening on Lost too!! You may be right!

whiskeyJim
02-10-2010, 07:10 AM
sorry, but what do the numbers mean?

Hart
02-10-2010, 07:10 AM
I agree with this and that he should have some bigger role to play, not as if he has not played a large role so far. But yeah, the fact that he has gone from the manipulator to the manipulated, I don't see them just finishing his story with like a villain's death/ending.

Thing is, it's interesting to consider how he has basically been manipulated the whole time in that he had been blindly following something and being forced into a course of action, so the major difference in that regard from the Losties is that he was not on the plane.

One thing I am looking forward to is the reactions when he does end up linking up with the Others again to see how that plays out since he did basically give up his post.

Plus, considering the way that his character has turned heads among fans, there is no way that there isn't a major final act for him.

@Bboboo thanks for posting that pic

Did any of Ben's flashbacks (off-island, of course) include Losties or Richard or Abbadon or any of that kinda stuff like all of the Losties' did ... or was his off-island past separate? There should be some sort of link between Ben and the island like everyone else seems to have. I must be missing something.

locke-n-load
02-10-2010, 07:16 AM
Did any of Ben's flashbacks (off-island, of course) include Losties or Richard or Abbadon or any of that kinda stuff like all of the Losties' did ... or was his off-island past separate? There should be some sort of link between Ben and the island like everyone else seems to have. I must be missing something.
His birth. He was 'linked' to the island by being born in Portland and conveniently assisted by Horace Goodspeed (dharma BMOC).

OceanicOnFire
02-10-2010, 07:22 AM
that was kind of awful of them--what if jack really did give sayid the pill? and sayid died? jack would have been so upset.


Jack didn't give the pill to Sayid, Jack still had it when he went back in to talk to Dugan, when he took it himself.

Swan815
02-10-2010, 07:25 AM
the date the ultrasound was taken

Mikhail's-lost-eye
02-10-2010, 07:27 AM
i'm really fond of miles too. we seem to be a minority!

I'm with you guys:)

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 07:29 AM
Did any of Ben's flashbacks (off-island, of course) include Losties or Richard or Abbadon or any of that kinda stuff like all of the Losties' did ... or was his off-island past separate? There should be some sort of link between Ben and the island like everyone else seems to have. I must be missing something.

His interaction with the Losties off island was all post-Oceanic 6, so separate in that sense, but I guess I meant to convey that he has become major enough that outside of Locke and Jack, it doesn't seem to me like there's a character among them now that deserves as big an ending as he does if he is to cut out early.

DharmaWine
02-10-2010, 07:32 AM
I'm with you guys:)

There are actually quite a lot of Miles fans. I know at first he came across as a bit of an ass, but it didn't take long to warm up to him, basically as a "new Sawyer" with the sarcasm and one-liners though with a different side to him. Plus it helped that Miles was still that same guy during the time when Sawyer turned all "nice" when he and Juliet got together.

I forget when it was, but it was one of those episodes when they were walking around the jungle early after they arrived and the Losties were checking up on people and he was like "Oh, I'm ok too if anyone was wondering." and that line actually resonated with a lot around here.

Hart
02-10-2010, 07:42 AM
His interaction with the Losties off island was all post-Oceanic 6, so separate in that sense, but I guess I meant to convey that he has become major enough that outside of Locke and Jack, it doesn't seem to me like there's a character among them now that deserves as big an ending as he does if he is to cut out early.

Sure ... I agree. That was kinda my original point. I'll be pretty disappointed if, like you suggested, Ben dies or gets killed or whatever and that's that. Even if what he reaps appropriately satisfies what he sowed (i.e., he gets a great big kill scene for being bad ... assuming that Ben is actually "bad"), I would like to think there's more to the character and that he's somehow a part of the great linkage shared by so many of the other characters ... and that it makes sense. I know it's early in the season and there's likely to be something, but I'm a little nervous Ben might be cast off to make room for the epic battle and all new guys which would be ... weird.

Bboboo
02-10-2010, 07:44 AM
I also think Miles is great. End of discussion.

OceanicOnFire
02-10-2010, 07:54 AM
That's a great thought...Sawyer carried her out of the rubble, they went into the woods that night. Perhaps she died of internal injuries in the night while they were sleeping, she was "possessed" or whatever, and she got up and walked into the darkness.

I too, think Claire was killed in the explosion. And now that I think about it, I think Sayid has been acting a bit unlike himself since he came back to "life". I thought his accent sounded different, and he wasn't his usual rough and tough self, he was more subdued and withdrawn. Did anyone else notice a change in Sayid's behavior?


I completely agree that they'll all experience this to some extent. Deja vu is a phenomemon that cannot really be explained, it happens to all of us, this would be an interesting answer as to why.

I agree, I think every episode will have a different person's ALT experience and then in the end it'll tie them all together. Hopefully!

OceanicOnFire
02-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Here is an idea - the "infection" has nothing to do with the smokey. It is what's inside the person. Sayid said it himself many times that he is a bad man. He is trying to be better. Perhaps the darkness of his past is eating at him - remember the comment after he shot Ben - "I am a killer." Maybe he is trying to give up that violent part of himself, but circumstances seem to prevent him from it, regularly. Add to this a possibility of him being possessed by Jacob and a potential struggle between Jacob's entity (who i am still not convinced is entirely benevolent) and Sayid's own dark capabilities and maybe you get somewhere.

This is another similarity to the show Supernatural (that someone else in here referred to)...on that show, one of the characters has turned evil (so to speak) and he realized recently that it was inside him all along, it didn't have much to do with exterior situations. So I like this theory that people can't go bad unless they have it in them already!

OceanicOnFire
02-10-2010, 08:03 AM
Is everybody still in the Jacob is good, MiB is bad camp? I'm not good at figuring stuff out and I don't remember things, but I'm really feeling it's all been designed to fool us and it'll be the opposite.

I am not sure what to think anymore but its hard as hell for me to think of Jacob as a good guy since that actor plays Lucifer on Supernatural! :D Seriously though, I really don't know who is good and who is bad but I'm leaning more towards the MIB being good because in that conversation on the beach, MIB wanted to stop Jacob from doing what he was doing (which, whatever it is, can't be good for all involved).

Vett
02-10-2010, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by DeBarlo
"Quarantine" is starting to make a little more sense.

I was always under the impression that The Incident/Jughead was always supposed to happen. And because Jughead went kablooey the Dharma Initiative had to cement the area like Chernobyl, and it was why they created the button and the failsafe, and why they put Radzinsky in the Swan to man the button, as punishment for drilling into the pocket of energy.

And lastly, the most important part, why they put "Quarantine" on the hatch door, because of all the radiation floating around after Jughead exploded.



It would it make sense that Christian = MiB, because the instructions
that he gives Locke in season 4 and 5 are what lead to Locke's
death and MiB's revenge.

While I do not doubt that Christian = MiB I did want to say that MiB took an awfully big risk telling Locke that he had to leave the island(in order for him to die). What if Locke had been the first person to turn the wheel and not Ben? How could've MiB orchestrated Lockes death if Ben wasn't there(even though he said to Locke "I said you had to move the island"). I guess what I'm trying to say is this: That Locke leaving the island didn't necessarily mean that he would die, and that in the event that Locke had not died nor was killed it would have completely ruined the plans that MiB had.



After sayid died, MIB was able to get to him, jacob wanted him brought to the temple because he knew they would diagnose him and give him the pill.

It seems that the temple others have a good indication of what smokie is capable of and how to ward him off. What's the point of pouring Ash all over the place at the temple after they learned of Jacob's death if smokie/MiB can get through their defenses and "claim" Sayid?

Lover of Lost
02-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Here's my thoughts on the episode-

On the Alternate Reality-

It didn't feel to me like it had a deep signifigance to the show we've been watching since season one, how much of a signifigance it does have depends on how signifigant the entire AR is to season one-five. What we know it does have signifigance to is season six, the juxtoposition of Island reality and Off Island reality in this season will be huge- notice how in LA X Jack and Locke got along so well together, and in this season's AR we see Kate and Claire get along really well, well I've always felt an underlying tension between Kate and Claire, that tension will be released this season i'd imagine in a very inteligent way.

On Kate centrics-

Not entirely my favourites, mainly her AR stuff, so this episode just fits the bill. Tabula Rasa had an awesome ending though. What Kate Did was my favourite centric episode of hers, I thought that was really well done. next in place comes whatever happened, happened. And What Kate Does would fall into my third favourite Kate centric.

Interesting but not, 'hell yeah that's the shit!'-

All the season one referencing with Ethan and stuff like that, was interesting, but it didn't really have an effect on how much I liked the AR this go around.
This stems from what I mentioned earlier with 'How relevant is the AR to seasons 1-5' If it is not relevant then I will hate to say it, but feels like a bit of a stab in the heart- If they're doing this to draw in new audiences, and people who left after season two or three, then I say- 'Who cares?'
I can only judge this episode fairly after I've seen the series finale, so in the meantime I press forward faithful. I will say the Alt reality stuff in LA X was absolutely awesome and I loved it, and if it continues to play out like that, keeping itself 'connected' to the Island, then this episode's AR scenes, in the long run, won't bother me in the slightest :)

On Island perfection-

What made this episode whole was of coarse the On-Island magic
I'll say that while it's not my favourite episode, I will say it was a perfect episode, as it was Solid, and every seen had direction, meaning, importance, and plot advancement, and the ending tied it up perfectly. Favourite scene for me personally was Sawyer's moment with Kate at the dock. This scene gave many of us what we've been looking for, a very, very, emotional, and meaningful, satisfying end, to the love triangle, breath deeply, it's over
(for now :P)

Also the return of the awesomeness of Jack Shephard, notice how commanding Jack was with the others when he demanded to see dogen and his interpreter. They stepped aside, almost like he was a force to be reverred and reckoned with. Plain and simple- it was awesome.

Also, the sickness, at long last returned to, what is the nature of the sickness? Is it linked with the smoke monster? I have no Idea, I'd imagine so, but it's still to soon to say for sure.

Everything was great about the on-Island stuff, and claire's return was suprisingly satisfying. That last scene really wrapped the episode up as a perfect whole, darkness and light is everywhere, everything about this season is just loaded with it, and I'm loving every second of it.

Last thoughts-

All I can say is the on Island stuff is 10/10 perfect, and the LA X stuff, will take patience, but will work out to be extremely satisfying in the end. even crap about Kate will feel much more bearable after we've seen how the AR plays out. Becuase there won't be this terrible sense of 'Pointlessness'
although I admit this AR stuff is enough to send even the most devout lost follower into an existential crisis of Faith, but as Jacob's charachter always seems to suggest, - Be patient, have faith, and enjoy what will be a groundbreaking season in a groundbreaking series.

Duns Scotus
02-10-2010, 09:10 AM
When Sawyer told Kate not to follow him, I knew she would, and she did because this is 'what Kate does'.

When Kate found the pic and baby things in the bag I knew she would go back for Claire, and she did because that is 'what Kate does'.

I think this might be the meaning of the episodes title.

Kaosium
02-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Nice rundown! We must have different tastes regarding the Kate-centric episodes, I thought "What Kate Did" was dreadful, by far my least favorite. Perhaps that was because it was such a let down, I'd had my appetite whetted since the very beginning and teased and teased and was really disappointed. "Born to Run was my favorite, and this might place second.

I liked the AR scenes, especially the whole sequence with the mechanic, from his simply not the slightest put off by the gun, to the sad scene with Kate going through Claire's bag and the cute little orca.

Ethan was a pleasant surprise, he still creeps me out though. :eek:

Everything on-Island was great, I find those people who are tired of the Temple kinda amusing. We've been hearing about this place for three seasons, now that we're in it don't you want to see more?

jarofclay73
02-10-2010, 09:29 AM
I think the big thing about Kate's flashsideways is that whatever happened, happened.

Claire was always meant to have the baby and raise him.
And it seems that Kate was always meant to have a hand in bringing Aaron into the world.

kordan11
02-10-2010, 09:46 AM
Well since this thread seems more about thoughts on the episode than the other threads filled with "WORST EPISODE EVAH!!!'-"NO IT WAS THE BEST, YOU JUST BLIND" give and takes, i'll give my two cents here...

On island stuff was great, no doubt about it in my mind. We now know the sickness exists, we just need to learn about its implications. Loved Jack and i'm now thinking that the refusal to answer any questions by Dogan/Lennon is more than just keeping suspense. It's like they're not supposed to tell the losties what's going on, maybe so that they are not influenced in what they are supposed to do... whatever that is anyway. This might be reading too much into something so i don't end up disappointed, but i still have faith in these writers.

I don't see anyone talking about Miles. I think he is not saying anything about Sayid, like he didn't say anything about Claire, because he doesn't understand it. He is as confused as we are, because these people are giving out death vibes, or whatever Miles sees in them, but they seem pretty much alive. Maybe Miles was looking funny at Sayid's body in LA X because he couldn't actually hear him even though he was dead. The questions he was asking Sayid after he came back suggest he is trying to make sense of what the hell is happening to these ressurecting people. And I believe he has a greater purpose in the story, since he hasn't actually done much in 2 seasons.

Also the on-island Kate part was pretty revealing. Yes, she has changed since season 4-5 and she does what she does to help Aaron, but she's still doing it her way.. lying to Jack and Jin about bringing Sawyer back to the temple, hitting on Sawyer so that they find Claire together. But I'm happy that Sawyer seems to be over her, at least for now.

Off-island stuff was pretty interesting. I think there is some kind of course correction/deja-vu thing going on for all the characters. Deja-vu as in "You barged into my taxi with a gun, threatened the driver, threw me out, stole my stuff but you seem ok.. wanna come help me with the giving-away-the-baby thing?". Course correction as in "Oh you're a murderer and you threatened me with a gun.. yeah, sure i'll cut your cuffs off and give you time to freshen up and get away with it.. you have a pregnant girl to help out after all". It's either very bad writing, or it means something, and i'm leaning towards the latter (again, might be giving them too much credit here, but i don't think so.. too obvious stuff). Plus Ethan = WIN (sorry...).

Decent episode, i liked it and i think it did move stuff forward, but i do understand some of the disappointment from a lot of peeps. People watch the show for different reasons after all.

misticknight
02-10-2010, 10:40 AM
when i watched this episode i felt LOST was ruined, thats 'what Kate does'. Makes sense to me.

Nateiums
02-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Off-island stuff was pretty interesting. I think there is some kind of course correction/deja-vu thing going on for all the characters. Deja-vu as in "You barged into my taxi with a gun, threatened the driver, threw me out, stole my stuff but you seem ok.. wanna come help me with the giving-away-the-baby thing?". Course correction as in "Oh you're a murderer and you threatened me with a gun.. yeah, sure i'll cut your cuffs off and give you time to freshen up and get away with it.. you have a pregnant girl to help out after all". It's either very bad writing, or it means something, and i'm leaning towards the latter (again, might be giving them too much credit here, but i don't think so.. too obvious stuff).

Yeah, I felt the same way. I was thinking at first how contrived it was that that a panicking pregnant woman could not freak out towards someone who just car jacked her, not only that but warm up to her so quickly. But I definitely got a vibe of kinship and a sense of familiarity between the two of them due to some sort of connection between the timelines.

This episode certainly had moments. Everything in new othertown was beautifully done, I think. The in temple stuff was good, Jack's back and forth with Dogen and the torture of Sayid. The connection back to the sickness was a surprise. The only thing that really stuck in my craw about this one was Aldo and Justin and them being used as really obvious exposition tools.

Lost Aussie
02-10-2010, 11:51 AM
i agree wasnt one of the best episodes kinda disapointed.

I'm hearing ya. I guess I just expected many more answers. I'm still very confused about 2007. WHH but also things are different too.

Mighty Rearranger
02-10-2010, 11:56 AM
I am not sure what to think anymore but its hard as hell for me to think of Jacob as a good guy since that actor plays Lucifer on Supernatural! :D Seriously though, I really don't know who is good and who is bad but I'm leaning more towards the MIB being good because in that conversation on the beach, MIB wanted to stop Jacob from doing what he was doing (which, whatever it is, can't be good for all involved).

I'm more inclined to believe that MIB's conversation with Ben was him at his most honest. He simply wants to get himself off the island and back home, and he's ready to use whatever or whoever to accomplish said goal. While I don't think this makes Jacob any more of a "good guy" in the story, I don't think we can attribute that title to MIB either, as evidenced by having a pretty selfish ultimate goal at this point. :/

BurningDeathHole
02-10-2010, 12:25 PM
I really despise Kate,Claire & Charlie episodes. So I wasn't too disappointed when 6.03 didn't live up to the lofty expectations set by LA X. The AR story w/Claire didn't go anywhere and I thought the Temple scenes w/ Jack and Dogen were too drawn out.

Best parts: Kate seemed to recognize Jack at LAX,supposed recognition of Aaron's name,the last 10 minutes of the show.

Worst parts: everything else

I was more enthralled by the teaser for 6.04 "The Substitute" then I was for the majority of this episode. Only 6 more days!:D

(end of my bitchin'.)

dgb100
02-10-2010, 01:32 PM
I'm pretty sure Team Jacob are a bunch of evil d-bags, I mean have ANY of the others not been murderous, child abducting, manipulative scum? Only Juliette, and she isn't really an Other IMO.
Ben, Dojo-Nixon, Zeke, Ethan, Widmore, all their shoot first Redshirts. Not saying Smokey is necesarrily a "good-guy" but there is more to this than black-white, good-evil.

Mighty Rearranger
02-10-2010, 01:36 PM
^Does MIB really have a team to begin with?? Anyone "on" his team are all dead people that are re-animated, thus far, and Ben, who has done his fair share of murdering to begin with......But MIB seems to prefer going solo anyways, as evidenced by his selfish goal...

And who's to say MIB wasn't manipulating most of the Others into every single one of their kills to begin with?? :/ Probably not, but ya never know...

lostinri
02-10-2010, 01:36 PM
I'm not finding these episodes all that exciting but I think it's the temple-it seems to slow the pace down too much. Maybe Dogen will stop speaking Japanese and that will help.

dgb100
02-10-2010, 01:36 PM
Yea, old Sayid would have kicked the crap out of Mr. Miyagi as his old bad self. He certainly wouldn't have been pleading for mercy. I'm kind of hoping to see that, Mr. Miyagi is apompus a-hole and needs a good thrashing.

I think Sayid's inherently dark soul will make his "claiming" by smokey or whatever, very interesting.

For a minute there I though Zeke was the auto mechanic, but alas it wasn't to be.


I too, think Claire was killed in the explosion. And now that I think about it, I think Sayid has been acting a bit unlike himself since he came back to "life". I thought his accent sounded different, and he wasn't his usual rough and tough self, he was more subdued and withdrawn. Did anyone else notice a change in Sayid's behavior?



I agree, I think every episode will have a different person's ALT experience and then in the end it'll tie them all together. Hopefully!

lostinri
02-10-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm trying to figure out where Richard and Ilana are now in relation to the temple. Isnt the temple inside the wall where the statue is? How much time has passed since Jack and the gang arrived at the temple? seems there should be a meeting of the 2 groups soon and it sucks for Jin because Sun will be coming to the temple and he's not there.

lostinri
02-10-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't know if it's been posted but the mechanic who helped Kate was Rack from Buffy season 6. :)