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Thread: Possible All in One Theory - In progress

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    Lightbulb Possible All in One Theory - Updated May 24, 2008

    Revised April 10, 2009

    Here's the second revision of the theory folks. Although we're not through with season five it has given us enough answers and reasons to cause a bit of editing. For those of you who have read the original and the first revision the essence of this is still pretty much the same. Some of the underlying ideas have been given a bit more credence and others have proven to be hogwash. However I still think, as the show goes on, that we are dealing with an ancient civilization that has survived into the 21st century.

    I originally thought that our losties were our entry into a much larger story, but that they themselves were not really relevant to that story prior to the crash. However with Richard Alpert having played a role in Lockeís life on a couple of separate occasions Iíve had to rethink that. However in the overall scheme of what Iím proposing it doesnít really change that much. If anything it may actually strengthen it.

    I believe that the real story, the one that we were introduced to by the crash of 815, is about the remnants of an ancient advanced civilization that has chosen to hide themselves from the world. Whether this is in order to survive, to protect themselves, protect something on the island or the island itself we can't tell at this time. When I say ancient and advanced think Atlantis, Mu or Lemuria. What I hope to show with this theory is why I think that and offer the evidence, scanty as it may be, to try and back up my speculation.

    Note: I originally thought that the pregnancy problems were an issue but with Richard seeming to view it as a pet project of Ben's I've almost given that line of thought up. I still think it is an issue but not central to the story.

    The Others/Hostiles

    Refered to as the original inhabitants of the island, or Hostiles, by the Dharma Initiative (DI), the Hostiles have become the Others to the survivors of 815. Hereís a couple of things that are a bit odd about them.
    • Richard Alpert met Ben when Ben was about 12 or 13. Except for the hair, Richard hasnít changed a bit. Add on the appearance of Richard at Lockeís birth as well as visiting him when he was a young boy. In each case Richard appears to be the same age which is identical to how he looks on the island today. We've also seen Richard during the time trip that Locke, Sawyer, Kate, Faraday and Miles were taking. His appearance has remained the same throughout.
    • The four-toed statue's foot. Evidence that some kind of monument was built in the past. During the time trip mentioned above we briefly see the statue whole from the back. There is a lot of speculation on who it might have been but given the circumstantial evidence we've seen in season five I'm leaning towards one of the Egyptian gods. Mostly leaning towards Anubis at this time.
    • Hieroglyphs. Found on the hatch timer, the door under Ben's house, the chamber with the FDW, the wall around the temple and underneath the temple. We've also seen them in a document found in Ben's old office. The door was really interesting tho. That thing looked OLD folks. Most of the focus on the door hieros has been on the ones at the top that look like old Egyptian. However I think the door is more like the Rosetta Stone with several types of hieros. You can find another thread here discussing the hieroglyphics.
    • The temple now appears to be an actual old temple and not just a DI station. Hieroglyphics were abundant when Ben went to be judged by the BCM. In the central piece above the BCM entrance you can see what appears to be Anubis in the hieros. All of the columns under the temple were covered in hieros as well. I'm extremely excited that we finally got more than a few hieros in one location.
    • The donkey wheel under the Orchid looked old and hieroglyphics could be seen on the stone post that the lantern was hanging from. Consider that this ancient appearing wheel caused the island to "move" in some fashion.
      Note: I don't know why I didn't include this the first time around. The stone column seen in "The Brig" that Locke's father was tied to. Another indicator of an ancient civ.
    • The simple clothing that the Others/Hostiles wear from time to time. Itís been suggested that the clothing appears piratical, suggesting a link to the Black Rock (BR). Iíve always looked at it as homespun. Something that they would be able to make locally from plants and animals available to them on the island.
    • The black cloud monster (BCM from now on). Rousseau stated at one time that it was part of a security system. Part of Dharmaís defenses, the sonic fence, dealt with keeping it out. The BCM was stopped cold when Juliet and Kate made it through the fence and activated it. Add in that Ben attracted/summoned it from behind the Glyph Door in his basement and you have a direct tie into the island, some kind of ancient culture and the BCM. It was also mentioned as a security system by Robert in the time-slip Jin had (This Place is Death). Ben's own journey to be judged, as he told Sun, by what "you call 'the monster' " indicates that it is a power on the island outside of what everyday people are aware of.
    • That brings us to Jacob. Who, or more importantly what, is Jacob? So far we know that he is someone that Ben can see and is afraid of. Locke has seen Jacob and so has Hurley. Neither time did it look to be the same person. Not sure who it was supposed to be when Locke saw him but Hurley appeared to see Jackís dad sitting in the chair. Of course in light of the recent show with Christian telling Locke he has to move the island itís entirely possible that Hurley never saw Jacob, just Christian.
      Note: Iíve come to believe that Jacob is the manifestation of what is controlling the island, not of the island itself. Much like the Emergency Medical Hologram on Star Trek Voyager, Jacob is a projection and not a true person. For that matter it may be how all of the dead folks on the island are up and walking around. Perhaps once the island scans you, much like Eko was scanned by the BCM, it is then able to make a replica of the person. At this point the 6 people we know are dead (Christian, Yemi, Alex, Anna Lucia, Charlie) have probably listed by TPTB as ďundeadĒ in the writers' room as mentioned in a podcast in March 2008. Of the six we know for a fact that Christian and Yemi have been listed that way.
    • Why are people like Walt, Locke and Eko so important to the Others/Hostiles? I think itís a matter of genetics. Each of these people proved to be exceptional through their back stories as well as what has occurred on the island. If this is a dying race of an ancient civilization itís possible that past interactions with humanity could have included interbreeding. What if they are looking for descendants of that interbreeding to help them boost their dwindling population?
    Note: About the death of Eko. When confronted by the BCM at one point you see flashes of Ekoís life in the BCM itself. Later, when confronted by what appears to be his brother Yemi Eko says heís not sorry for anything. Yemi walks into the forrest and then the BCM attacks Eko. I think that the island/jacob was there as Yemi to see first hand what the BCM had reported about Eko. The determination was made that while Eko had whatever the Others/Hostiles are looking for he wasn't someone that worthy due to his past actions. Hence Eko's death by the BCM.
    • Finally, why stay on the island if itís the island that is causing the women to die during pregnancy? Juliet appears to be dead set against Sun staying on the island. So why not just take them off the island when they get pregnant? Could it be that they canít stay off the island for extended periods? Is there something about the island that they have to stay for that precludes leaving during pregnancy? Donít know but thatís something that has bothered me from the first. If the island is killing pregnant women then just take them off the damn thing until they give birth. Then bring them back.
    Note: One sub theory I have is that the Others/Hostiles were probably willing to leave the DI alone at first until the DI did something that caused the pregnancy issues on the island. That is when the Others/Hostiles decided to eradicate the DI on the island.
    Thereís probably a lot more but after 4 seasons this is what Iíve come up with. In a nutshell the remnants of an ancient advanced race are dying out and are trying to find ways to prevent that from happening. Enter the DI and the bloody history between the two groups. And finally add in the UNEXPECTED crash of flight 815. By this I mean that no HUMAN agency caused the plane to crash. In light of Richardís and Abaddonís roles in Lockeís life I think that the island played a role in some of them being on the plane. I also think the island/Jacob played a role in the crash as well. The survivors have become our entry, our viewpoint, into this larger story.
    Last edited by nomadic_1; 05-26-2009 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Updated 11 Feb, 2009 Episode: This Place is Death

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    Default Part II

    The Island

    About all of the lost civilization legends deal with a sunken continent. Take a look at Zealandia. A sunken continent with New Zealand being the visible part. The second set of coordinates at this link using the numbers would place the island off its northeast coast possibly giving us a basis for a “lost” civilization.

    Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction
    1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
    2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
    3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
    Keep these in the forefront of your mind as I lay out a few things.
    • The island’s apparent healing properties have been well documented. Rose’s illness, Locke’s spinal injury as well as gun shot wound. Ben is up and about after major spinal surgery. Just about everyone appears to get over any kind of shock or trauma, with the exception of overwhelming damage, in very little time. Even the pregnancy problem is a case of the mothers immune system turning on them. In Jin’s case it “suped” him up enough to have a child he couldn’t have fathered anywhere else in the world. Is this a product of the island or something that was done to the island?
    • Is the island an active participant? In season four it would appear to have taken a hand in keeping Michael from harming himself or being shot by Keamy. This would seem to suggest that the island/Jacob is capable of exerting influence at quite a distance. Enough to pull down and guide a plane maybe?
    • Why can’t the island be found? Well it can….if you know what you’re looking for. This is where I believe the proof of an advanced civilization comes in. Let’s suppose that some kind of catastrophe occurred to this civilization in the past. Whether it was natural or something they caused themselves, they decided to hide from the rest of the world. Using their technology they created a “shield” around the island. Now whether it works on a quantum level of some kind or on some principle that we haven’t discovered yet, the net effect is that the island has been hidden. At the same time the only route out of the island is a specific course through the shield. It’s obvious that this works since both Michael and the chopper have been able to follow the correct heading to get out. There are a ton of different theories floating around about the nature of this shield. Hearing Voices started a really excellent one, Casimir Island, back in August 2007 that brought up exotic matter before the season ever started. Definitely worth a read.
    • One of the properties of this shield appears to be a localized warping of space/time in close proximity to the shield. The turbulence that the chopper went through now gives us an idea as to why 815 broke up before it crashed. Traversing the boundary that keeps the island from being seen or found by the rest of the world would mean traveling in an area of localized disruption in the very fabric of the universe. It might also explain why radio signals can go through without a pause but physical objects appear to go through some sort of temporal displacement.
      People have been trying to figure out the difference in time on the island and the rest of the world. However I don't think time passes any differently outside the island "bubble" than it does inside. It's only when people cross through the shield boundary that they encounter any type of distortion or dilation of time. When Sayid and Desmond where on the chopper we know how long it appeared to take from Jack and Kate's point of view. We also know how long it appeared to Desmond and Sayid. What we don't know is how long it appeared to take to the people on the boat. I think the boundary they have to cross is localized. Only in the localized area are there any distortions. Throw in the appearance of the Doc’s corpse prior to his actual death and I believe you get a narrow region that can cause distortion. Started a thread here that deals with it to a degree.
    • A couple of threads deal with the 2 different coordinates that have been given to get off the island. 325 and 305. 20 degree difference. I made the attached map to give an idea as to why they could have 2 sets of coordinates.
    • Apparitions. I classify these as those instances where we see people that are either dead or could not physically be in a location since we have been given the knowledge that they are elsewhere. Yemi, Christian, Alex, Walt (as seen by Shannon and again as seen by Locke), Charlie, and Anna Lucia. I touched on it above in the first part by saying that I think the island/Jacob is responsible for these. I think as we go along we'll see more of these appear from time to time with varying degrees of interaction between them and the losties. Both Christian and Alex have proved that they can interact physically with other people. However both have shown that they can disappear in the blink of an eye. Whether or not they are true ghosts, manifestations or projections that can interact with people or they are actually alive remains to be seen. I'm putting stock in the manifestation/projection idea myself.
    Summary

    I believe that the control system for the island is manifested in Jacob. It’s function is to keep the island hidden and care for those on it. Either it is breaking down through neglect or the DI has caused it to start failing. If it is a product of an advanced civilization they may have lost the knowledge to correct what is wrong. Or maybe they lost the ability to interface with it so they are looking for those “special” people.

    Additional Theories/Conjectures

    Here are a few of my running theories as well.
    • The Black Rock. How did it get that far inland. Well for one we're not sure how far inland it is. Second, hurricane Katrina threw boats inland by about a mile. A strong storm surge could have taken it quite a ways inland. And with what was seen in the season four finale it's also possible that during a previous island move the island appeared in a location the Black Rock was already in. Instant land lock.
    • Desmond and his precognition. We've already seen Desmond apparently travel through time twice now. And despite Faraday's assertion that you can't change the future Faraday's journal now states that Desmond would be his constant. Now consider Desmond's first foray into the past. He knew something was gonna happen and it did. He was a bit confused by it and it didn't happen exactly as he remembered it but it happened. Could the Desmond on the island now be from the future itself? Possibly his consciousness displaced when he left the island and his 1996 consciousness was controlling his body? That would explain his foreknowledge of Charlie's various forms of death. As it was changed, the future was altered and the manner of Charlie's death would change. Since Desmond is from the future he would "remember" how Charlie died and fix it only to have another method take it's place. Here's a thread devoted to this idea. I've also attached an image that may explain it a bit as well.
    • Ben told Michael that they were the good guys. Based on what I’ve put together I agree with that. Whether it’s the DI or Widmore whoever has access to an island like this would allow them to do anything without fear of repercussion or reprisal. Add in a small population that likely could not defend itself on a large scale and you need someone like Ben who is capable of being ruthless in a war no one else is even aware of. The extreme methods that Ben has used in the past, and will probably use again in the future, become justifiable even as they are unpalatable.
    • Rousseau. I've removed this portion of the theory on April 10, 2009. If you are interested in seeing what it was you can view the attached .txt file at the bottom of this post.

    Added some links to information in the wiki so that folks don't have to look for it themselves. I figure as long as ya'll are being lazy and letting me do all this work I'd make it easier for you

    As always, feel free to rip it apart

    Time travel basics for Lost for those that want a good thread on time travel principles in the show.

    Note: the files below are a couple of images I put together to explain concepts found in the theory. The .txt files are the first iterations of the theory.
    Attached Images
    Attached Files
    Last edited by nomadic_1; 04-10-2009 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Updated 11 Feb, 2009 Episode: This Place is Death

  3. #3
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    AAAAHHHHH. Information overload... will need time to think this through. I get a little suspicious of these all-encompassing theories though...

    Beware: I post awesome pics in the "1000 Posts!" thread.
    "Never say never, dude" - Hurley
    and yes... I like ellipses...

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    I love it how there are sooo many theories that have substantial evidence behind them but they all seem to contradict each other. Good work anyway....but as ive always said, let's just wait to see what the writers do before saying thats definately what its about.

    Well done nomadic_1 and welcome to the forums.

    Peace,

    xx
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    Never said I think this is a definate thingy. Just what I think might be going on

    Case in point...friend of mine said the boat was Widmoore's last year and I told him he was full of it. I HATE that he was right

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    Wow how long did it take you to write that? And by the way great theory but I think that the Smoke Monster are the hallucinations not Jacob.

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    Working off and on since the end of season 2. The foot is what did it for me

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny_wii View Post
    Wow how long did it take you to write that? And by the way great theory but I think that the Smoke Monster are the hallucinations not Jacob.

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    Added a part about Rousseau. figured it would be easier to read that way instead of adding it as a comment. Anyone else think she's working for Ben?

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    I like where you are going... I subscribe more to the wormhole theory personally, but yours makes sense... now I want to go back and watch that episode of the others walking through the jungle... see if alpert has four toes... that would confirm it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerdimples View Post
    I like where you are going... I subscribe more to the wormhole theory personally, but yours makes sense... now I want to go back and watch that episode of the others walking through the jungle... see if alpert has four toes... that would confirm it.
    Never thought of that....have to do the same if it can be seen.

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