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Thread: 3x20 The Man Behind the Curtain

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chameleon View Post
    I think that's a good question. Has this been discussed to death? I assume that Richard wasn't necessarily on a constant search for a leader, only at the appropriate times, and obviously he was given a reason to investigate Locke. I assume Ben was chosen because of his ability to see and speak to his mother who did not die on the island -- at least that's all we really have to go on at this point. I'm hoping we'll find out more in terms of why/when Eloise stopped being the leader (at which point I assume Charles took over) and especially about the transition from Charles to Ben.
    Eloise was the leader? or co-leader with Charles? Who was the leader before Charles? I wonder why Richard isn't the leader.

  2. #22
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    re:Jacob'sWiseOldMother
    You put it so succinctly. thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Was Here View Post
    I loved the way Richard looked on incredulously as Ben led Locke out of camp to 'go see Jacob'. It is only after seeing the end of season 5 that we know what Richard was probably thinking in this moment: "I wonder how the hell Ben is gonna pull off THIS con? Go see Jacob? BEN hasn't even seen Jacob. Ben doesn't even know where he LIVES!"

    Fourth - this is the episode where I fell in love with Richard Alpert. What a great character! In truth, he sees more of the big picture than anyone else on the island...and yet he doesn't let on. He never says a word when Ben leads Locke out of camp. He just stands there...keeping his no doubt extremely amusing thoughts to himself about the matter. Didn't even shake his head in shock at Ben's latest con. Although it IS a bit disconcerting that Richard seemed to treat the gassing of the DI as 'just another day at the office'.
    I know now we've seen Jacob. But I wonder if there's some way Richard could be Jacob. Richard's got to be somebody important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steebin View Post
    I saw this on tv late saturday night about a week or 2 ago and at 14mins in, during the "hostiles" scene where young ben is in the classroom and they lock all the doors, there is 1 second shot of what looks like (debatable) sawyer running past the window. Thought that was pretty cool if it is sawyer/laflur

    EDIT:
    Screencap
    on rewatch, I thought it looked a little like Sawyer too.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdorian View Post
    Eloise was the leader? or co-leader with Charles? Who was the leader before Charles? I wonder why Richard isn't the leader.
    Listen to the commentary track for "The Man Behind the Curtain" where Lindelof pretty clearly describes Richard's role. He likens Richard to the Panchen Lama in Tibetan Buddhism whose job it is to find the new Dalai Lama (I'm paraphrasing Lindelof's interpretation, read more here or elsewhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchen_Lama). This is made pretty explicit when Richard visits young John Locke and shows him several objects -- John is supposed to choose the one that "belongs" to him which shows that he is the leader. Lindelof mentioned this idea of the Panchen Lama again recently in an interview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...show_id=191627). This is particularly interesting since Flocke seems to have both Locke's memories as well as embody MiB, so he is in fact an incarnation of someone, although maybe not who Richard thought it would be. I also wonder if Richard is basing all his actions and assumptions on whatever Jacob has told him, and maybe Jacob hasn't told him the whole story.

    Now, why Richard would be negotiating the truce with the D.I. rather than the "leader", I'm not clear on. I also think it's a little vague, I thought Eloise was the leader in 1977, but in "Whatever Happened, Happened" they talk like maybe both she and Charles are in charge, but Richard explicitly states that there can be only one leader in "The Incident."

    Incident:
    RICHARD: Because only our leader can request an audience with Jacob, and there can only be one leader on the Island at a time, John.

    WH,H:
    MAN: [Steps forward] Richard...You shouldn't do this without asking Ellie. And if Charles finds out--
    RICHARD: Let him find out. I don't answer to either of them

    Although maybe the implication is that Ellie is in charge but since Charles is her lover/husband/whatever he's got kind of an unofficial First Lady position, or at least acts more important than he is.

    Widmore appears to be in charge by 1989, which makes me think Eloise is off the island by then. Her appearance to Desmond was supposed to have happened around 1995 or 1996 according to Lostpedia. It's not really clear when her motherly interactions with Daniel took place.

  6. #26
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    Interesting, maybe Lindelof took some other ideas from that Wikipedia page!

    "In 1979, he married a Han Chinese woman and in 1983 they had a daughter, which was considered controversial" -- just like how Widmore got kicked off the island by Ben.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Cooper View Post
    just watched this episode again. I just want answers to where Annie went.
    Annie seems like too big a plot element to just be dropped. Especially after giving Ben the dolls.

    I suspect we'll hear about her fate before all is said and done.

    My theory? Something about her is precisely WHY Ben is--according to Alpert--distracting them with "novelties" like fertility issues.
    Maybe she and Ben hooked up and she died in pregnancy. Or maybe they wanted to hook up but feared doing so before the childbirth issue was solved. Maybe she's on the mainland waiting or elsewhere on the island. I think we'll at least hear her fate and that it will be intertwined with that issue somehow, but that's just an immediate gut reaction.

    I just can't see Ben killing her in the Purge (and if he did, their not showing it), but since she didn't seem to be around then I have to assume she had either already left the island, was already dead, or was elsewhere when it happened.

  8. #28

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    After watching several scenes from this episode I realize how much forshadowing about MIB is in the convo between richard and young ben in the woods. well at least I understand why he asked if his mom had died on the island and what difference that makes.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NekoMouser View Post
    Annie seems like too big a plot element to just be dropped. Especially after giving Ben the dolls.

    I suspect we'll hear about her fate before all is said and done.

    My theory? Something about her is precisely WHY Ben is--according to Alpert--distracting them with "novelties" like fertility issues.
    Maybe she and Ben hooked up and she died in pregnancy. Or maybe they wanted to hook up but feared doing so before the childbirth issue was solved. Maybe she's on the mainland waiting or elsewhere on the island. I think we'll at least hear her fate and that it will be intertwined with that issue somehow, but that's just an immediate gut reaction.

    I just can't see Ben killing her in the Purge (and if he did, their not showing it), but since she didn't seem to be around then I have to assume she had either already left the island, was already dead, or was elsewhere when it happened.
    Extreme bummer regarding this if you listened to the latest audio podcast (March 11, 2010: http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/podcasts). Frankly I think this is a bigger deal than, say, learning about the DI pallet drops, but I can live with this being ignored as long as they give me a story that in the end makes the motivations of Jacob, MiB, Widmore, and the Others clear.
    "I don't have to prove anything to you, Richard. You either come with me or you can keep trying to blow stuff up. Your call, dude."

  10. #30
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    Yet another brilliant LOST episode, I would easily consider this the best of Season 3.

    Ben's backstory is finally revealed with painstaking attention to detail. This episode is critically important to unlocking the mysteries of the DHARMA Initiative and seeds core elements which pay off two seasons later during the time-flashes.

    This episode could be considered a bookend to "Across The Sea" with the parallels between Young-Ben and Young-MIB clearly evident.

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