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Thread: 5x10 He's Our You

  1. #11
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    I don't think Iliana is really working for the family of the man killed in the Seychelles. I think Ben set that up, as well as the guy outside Santa Rosa hospital.

    Ben set up Kate, Jack, Sun, Hurley AND Sayid to make sure they all came back to the island.

    Even though Iliana SAID she didn't work for Ben, and she SAID she was there to bring Sayid to justice....I don't believe her...especially after seeing that she works for Jacob, I think Iliana has been lying about her true role all along.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Fan 4815162342 View Post

    Does that mean Widmore is working for Jacob too? He did tell Locke that he would do whatever he could to keep him alive, contrary to what Richard and Christian told Locke what must happen — that he must die — and Ben made sure did. Thus giving the MIB the loophole he needed to kill Jacob, Ilana’s boss.
    He told Locke he would do whatever he could to keep him alive, but he didn't...If he was really trying, he would have had more people protecting him...Widmore would have learned about Abadons death and sent more people to protect him...He was lying...Saying whatever he thought would work to his advantage...Just like Ben.

  3. #13
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    This episode is a disappointment for me if only because it gave me almost nothing to think about in the grand sceme of LOST. Also, as much as I love William Sanderson, his character was a letdown. The Dharma Initiative's "interrogator" just ties people up and gives them acid? That's a lot less scary than what Sayid does to people. Why does the D.I. have a crackpot who lives in the woods do their questioning for them? At what point did this become Oldham's role, or was he hired specifically for that purpose?

    Personally I think Ilana is working for Jacob and does not have any connection to Ben. She's either lying about working for Avellino's family, or she did take the job from them as a sort of undercover thing. I don't think Widmore has any connection to Jacob, at least not if there are clearly drawn "sides" as Widmore and others say there are. And while Ben has always professed to believe in Jacob and is opposed to Widmore, I think his conflict with Widmore is entirely personal and that Ben really has no stake in Jacob whatsoever. On the other hand, there are a few hints in S5 that Ben knows a bit more than he's let on (which is usually the case with him) so it could very well be more complicated than that. It's the fact that they built the runway and he acts all cagey about both Jack/Kate/Hurley/Sayid's disappearance off the plane and John's apparent resurrection that makes me suspicious.
    Last edited by Dr. Chameleon; 12-31-2009 at 06:30 PM. Reason: added questions about Oldham

  4. #14

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    Richard Was Here summed up almost exactly what I thought when I watched this episode. It was especially disappointing because I always enjoy Sayid centrics.

    Finally, we get traditional flashbacks again, which I had been looking forward to, and it's embarrassing how lame they were. I was hoping to find out how Sayid had been dealing with being Ben's assassin and what prompted him to eventually end the arrangement; instead, it's BEN who dismisses him, and then we skip along to Sayid suddenly being well-adjusted volunteering in South America, which by the way we had already seen in "Jeremy Bentham" so we learned nothing new.

    The whole Ilana part was lame with stilted, awkward and fake dialogue at the bar, pretty much predictable based on "316".

    Sayid's behavior in 1977 was bizarre and annoying.

    I don't know if having Young Ben shot was supposed to be shocking, but who thought that he would actually die anyway? As if they wouldn't have Ben until the series finale. And this episode led to more and more unbelievable actions, such as Kate and Juliet suddenly desperately wanting to save Ben.

  5. #15
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    Agreed. I felt like season 5 had a lot of "surprise" moments that weren't in the least bit surprising or shocking (see also: Eloise revealing that she's Dan's mother).

  6. #16
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    Yeah definitely one of the worst of the season. I don't get why Sayid didn't want to do what Sawyer suggested. It would have been much simpler. I guess he just didn't want to get caught up in yet another lie.

    The ending still surprised me even though I was expecting SOMEONE to try to kill little Ben at some point. I thought they might be showing things could be changed in the past.



  7. #17
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    This beginning parallels Eko's, though it's killing a chicken (really easily justifiable), not a man. Minor thing, but I guess I just didn't think the boys are brothers, just friends. Although the adult knows Sayid's name. not that it matters.

    Inconsistancies: Richard's long hair.

    When Ben comes to Sayid in Santo Domingo, Sayid still trusts Ben.
    BEN: John Locke is dead. I think he was murdered.(you think?)

    SAYID: Why would anyone kill him?

    BEN: I'd say it was retribution for the work you and I have been doing. So you're in danger, Sayid. If I can find you, so can the people that found Locke. The same people who, even as we speak, are sitting outside Hugo's mental institution.

    SAYID: They're watching him?

    BEN: A man in a sedan has been there all week, just waiting... presumably for you or me to show our faces.


    (Sayid could have killed some random person at Santa Rosa, who wasn't waiting there for a week at all. just some guy in his car.) Right before Sayid tells Hurley never to trust Ben, he killed someone based purely on Ben's word.

    SAYID: And that's why you're here? You actually came all this way to suggest that I kill this man?

    BEN: You don't want to?


    (if that doesn't sound manipulative...)

    This far in the show, though the characters have changed in 3 years, some basic issues are still evident. Sayid's still a killer, Sawyer's still looking out for his own hide at the expense of Sayid. I suppose Jack's the most changed of the group, though he still, with the bomb, has to take charge and fix things.

    You know the Dharma Initiative isn't all peace-loving hippie types, (well we know they're doing ethically questionable psych. experiments) since they have their own torturer on staff.

    More inconsistancies: In the original marina scene, we see Sayid point to Jack and Ben and say, "The next time I see you or you, it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us." And now it's just directed at Ben, "unpleasant for us both" only implies two people.

    McCutchin whisky...Desmond, Widmore, Cooper I think. Sayid. and Ilana (Jacob's ally) has heard of it too. I liked some of the trivia on the whisky:
    * Admiral MacCutcheon is the name of a character in a television remake film of the classic story, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (by Jules Verne). In this remake, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje plays the character Cabe Attucks.
    * In the US, scotch is sold in 750 ml (25.36 fl.oz.) bottles, and standard shots are 1.5 fl.oz. At $120 a glass, a bottle would cost $2,030. Of course scotch is available in different ages, and a bottle of say 15-year-old, would cost much much less than a bottle of 60-year-old.

    * Currently, the worlds most expensive Scotch is a $75,000 1926 Macallan. According to the link, the bottle in question was sold to a business man in South Korea, which is where the Paik family is from.
    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/MacCutcheon_whisky
    man, that's some expensive booze! I wonder, along with the T-shirts and jigsaw puzzles, if LOST people will market MacCutcheon whisky. Only, you know, considerably cheaper.

    random thoughts: I wonder what Oldham's and Ilana's accents are.

    I love Ilana and Sayid's conversation!
    "I like sad men."
    "I'm sorry to hear that."
    "When you are that good at something, there are always going to be people who tempt you to stay the same." (Ilana could also be talking about herself, not wanting to be a bounty hunter.)
    Their conversation feels instantly deep, sorrowful, empathetic, and still flows naturally.

    The first time I saw this episode, I didn't recognize her from earlier scenes boarding Ajira. I didn't know that was her until she tricks him, so I was surprised. It is reminiscent of Elsa too.
    Last edited by sdorian; 01-13-2010 at 03:00 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Was Here View Post
    [Nadia] would love him unconditionally, knowing fully what his past was. This was his soulmate - more than just a wife. This was the love of his life.

    When Ben manipulated him with that photo taken near the 'accident', look at how fast Sayid believed him... Of all people...Just took Ben's word for it, on face value, and became an assassin. He didn't care, I don't believe, if Ben was telling him the truth or not - he was willing to believe anything, just for an excuse to go on a murderous rampage.

    It wasn't just anger - it was intense rage. Rage over the fact that Nadia had been taken from him. I believe he didn't even care if he was killing the right people...Sayid was just looking for an excuse to kill - in an attempt to work out his rage.

    Unfortunately, Ben ran out of enemies before Sayid ran out of rage.

    ...And yet, Ben dismissed him, just the same as he'd tried to do in Iraq. He backed out on their unspoken bargain! In fact, he used almost the same exact (patronizing) words - "Go home Sayid!". ...and in fact was the catalyst that turned Sayid's rage to Ben himself. It was the inevitable result of his 'partnership' with Ben, which had always been less about a partnership and more about two people simply using each other...

    Sayid is in a very dark place here. That's why he didn't even care what Sawyer did with him. He didn't even care if the Torturer in the Tepee ended up killing him. In fact, in many ways, I think he wanted to die. Perhaps he thought that after everything he'd been through over the past 3 years...and now finding himself back on this bloody Island (against his will ...) he was just destined to feel nothing but fury and intense loss for the rest of his life. And he was just ready to break under the weight of it all.

    ... he ran away to Santa Domingo - to try and escape himself...and Ben. And just as he was sort of semi pulling himself together (he thought), Ben turns up AGAIN to manipulate him.

    It was like he couldn't escape, no matter what he did.
    You've given me a lot to mull over...
    I essentially agree, but I have a different take on the Moscow alley scene.
    I think Sayid allied with Ben because he (like Ben with Alex or Sawyer with the original Sawyer) was so desperate for revenge. So he ostensibly bought into the higher cause of protecting his friends.

    In the Moscow scene, I think Sayid looks defeated, emptied, lost. (like Locke when Boone died...or when he found the Pearl and thought the button was a just a cruel joke...puppets of strings! I digress...) I think he needs meaning, purpose, direction. someone to tell him what to do. (maybe like an expert soldier, with no more orders to follow, and the war's over) and anticlimactic. All that, all that killing...and what, for Ben to dump him there, no resolution, no answers, Ben has no more use of him...
    In that moment, I think Sayid realizes that
    a)Ben was only using him and now has no use for him
    b)revenge didn't pay off, didn't solve anything, just leaves him empty - and a murderer
    c)the full extent of how he fell for Ben's machinations, cruel psychopathic lying mass murdering Ben
    d)how he (Sayid) has yet again failed to change himself (stop the torturing and the killing), realization that being a killer is who he is

    So - after all that - (because I don't think he'd contemplate suicide like Jack or Locke) I think Sayid goes to Santo Domingo for two purposes. One, to try and "do some real good", do something substantially good to help atone for all he's done. And two, to disappear, vanish, hide. Get away from everybody and everything. So he must really hate it when Locke, and then Ben, find him and get him back into it. Must hate that he, after all that, fell for Ben's lies AGAIN. and can't escape it. runs from the off-island Losties, and finds himself being dragged back to the island.

    Wakes up on the island full of self-loathing and purposelessness. But if he can kill Ben, then he can prevent Ben from killing, tormenting, and manipulating people. He can save Dharma, his friends, himself. Ben has to die.

    and, heartbreakingly, Ben doesn't die. Moreover, Kate and Sawyer try to save him.

    poor Sayid.
    Last edited by sdorian; 01-13-2010 at 03:28 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Was Here View Post
    I don't know if Widmore flat out wanted to harm them. But obviously he was having them watched. And Ben (or his own people) were watching the watchers.

    In other words, I don't know what Ben meant when he told Sun that he had been keeping them all 'safe'. Does that mean 'alive'? Or does that simply mean 'out of Widmore's hands'?
    I think Ben made up the line about helping them and keeping them safe so Sun and Jack wouldn't shoot him while he's driving the car. Although Ricardus Alpert made a good point that he has emotionally immature outbursts when he's more honest...

  10. #20
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    I think Ilana was purposefully bringing Sayid to the island. (paraphrase - can we take another flight? I'm superstitious. No, it has to be this flight.) Whether or not she was actually hired by Avellino, I think, is irrelevant. Jacob probably told her to bring Sayid to the island alive. (and some other stuff..like hook up with Bram...and the whole Shadow of the Statue thing, which makes me wonder if Ilana is kind of immortal like Richard and Jacob)

    I don't think Sayid knew Ben wouldn't die. For one, he didn't get that whole Whatever Happened, Happened speech from Daniel. Maybe he thought he could change the past, no reason to think otherwise...

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